Original Usenet thread from alt.ascii-art, started 18 Apr 1999.
Butterfly
alt.ascii-art
· 81 messages · 18 Apr 1999 - 6 Jun 2003
Does anyone have a picture of a (small) butterfly in ASCII? Thanks!
In article <199...@ng-fa1.aol.com>, JL Kool 12 <jlk...@aol.com> writes >Does anyone have a picture of a (small) butterfly in ASCII? > >Thanks! _ ' ' _ --( '.".' ) __ :--H--: _\_'./"\.' You'll never get me up in one of those things. _/_.-' / . . ( ( ( ( ( @) (" ) ) ) ) . ...." " " " "...... " " " " ...http://www.xemu.demon.co.uk/
Bad picture, but 4 out of 5 bug collectors know what it is. .-.(_).-. ( O (_) O ) ( . (_) . ) '-'(_)'-'vaa JL Kool 12 wrote: > > Does anyone have a picture of a (small) butterfly in ASCII? > > Thanks! -- .-.--||-----||--.-.-----------------------.-.-----------------------.-. |K| || _ || |T| "FOR THE GREATER |E| Vice Admiral Acker |S| |I| ||=/#\=|| |H| GLORY OF THE EMPIRE, |B| Kam...@rotfl.com |C| |L| ||=\_/=|| |E| DESTROY EVERYTHING!" |E| http://fly.to/vaa |U| |L| || || |R| ~Briefing Officer |L| 15310412 -ICQ |M| '-'--||-----||--'-'-----------------------'-'-. rellik 608 -AIM .-'-' '-------------------'
JL ( jlk...@aol.com ) 18.04.99 "Butterfly":
> Does anyone have a picture of a (small) butterfly in ASCII?
Well, they aren't that small
.odc
.d8888P
.8888888
.... .88888888P
88888888b. d888888888
88NICK88888c `:' d8888888888
888888888888c:d88888888888P
888888888888888888888888C
`888888888888888888888888b
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d8888888888"888888888888
8888888888" " "88888888"
388888888" "888P"
"888888"
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.MMMMMP
.MM888MM
.... .MM88888MP
MMMMMMMMb. d8MM8tt8MM
MM88888MMMMc `:' dMME8ttt8MM
MM88tt888EMMc:dMM8E88tt88MP
MM8ttt888EEM8MMEEE8E888MC
`MM888t8EEEM8MMEEE8t8888Mb
"MM88888tEM8"MME88ttt88MM
dM88ttt8EM8"MMM888ttt8MM
MM8ttt88MM" " "MMNICKMM"
3M88888MM" "MMMP"
"MNICKM"
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`NO GUTS NO GLORY' `NO FEAR'
>Message-id: <199...@ng-fa1.aol.com> > >Does anyone have a picture of a (small) butterfly in ASCII? ASCII butterflies? here they are -- (in fixed-width font/they'll looked skewed in your AOL reader) \ / \ / \ / \ / .----.().----. .----.().----. {(). o( )o .()} { \o .( ). o/ } {/ /\/\ \} {/ /\/\ \} ds. /O/ \O\ ds. (/_/ \_\) (/ \) \ / \ / .--.().--. {\_o( )o_/} {/_/\/\_\} \/ \/ ds.98 ,/ \, (/ \) +`+. .+'+ ' `+. q p .+' ` ' `. \ / .' ` ( `. \ / .' ) `. `. \ / .' .' ` + \ / + ' ` `. \ / .' ' `. .+ . \ / . +. .' ` ' + \ / + ` ' .' ' ` \ / ' ` `. + ' `. () .' ` + ' ' + `' + ` ` `. ' ` ,'`, ' ` .' , ' ` + + ' ` , ( .' ` , , ' `. ) ` + ` ` ' ' + ' `+.+' ` ' `+.+' ' | | ` ' ' ` ` ` ' ` ' ` | | ' ` | | ' ` ` ' ' ' ' ` ' ` ` ' ` ' | | ` ` ' ` ' `. .' ` ' ` ' `. ' ` ' ` .' ` ( + ' | | ` + ) ` ` ' `. ,' ` ' ' ` ` ' '++` ` ' ' ` ` ' ' ` ` ' ' ` + ' | | ` + ' `. ' ' ` ' ` ' .' + ' ,+' | | `+. ' + ` `.+' ` ' `+.` ' ` ' `' ` ' ` ' ` ' `.' `.' lr k\ /j "We don't see things as they are, k\ /j ((^\V/^)) we see them as we are." ((^\V/^)) \\_|_// - Anais Nin, 1903-1997 \\_|_// ((/|\)) ((/|\)) jenny mabee * jma...@drew.edu .~'^v v^'~. { Al# \*/ #sP } \ le M rI / > % A % < { Rg /Y\ nG } Designed by tqv...@virginia.edu `--~ ~--' From: vli...@rcl.wau.nl (Meindert de Jong <^_^>) _--_ _--_ /#()# #\ 0 0 /# #()#\ |()## \#\_ \ / _/#/ ##()| |#()##-=###\_ \ / _/###=-##()#| \#()#-=## #\_ \ / _/# ##=-#()#/ |#()#--==### \_ \ / _/ ###==--#()#| |#()##--=# #\_ \!!!/ _/# #=--##()#| \#()##---===####\ O|O /####===---##()#/ |#()#____==#####\ / Y \ /#####==____#()#| \###______######|\/#\/|######______###/ ()#O#/ ##\_#_/## \#O#() ()#O#(__-===###/ _ \###===-__)#O#() ()#O#( # ###_(_|_)_### # )#O#() ()#O(---#__###/ (_|_) \###__#---)O#() ()#O#( / / ##/ (_|_) \## \ \ )#O#() ()##O#\_/ #/ (_|_) \# \_/#O##() \)##OO#\ -) (_|_) (- /#OO##(/ )//##OOO*| / | \ |*OOO##\\( |/_####_/ ( /X\ ) \_####_\| /X/ \__/ \___/ \__/ \X\ (#/ \#) > > > > 899X7 X8997 > g999999Wm_ ,gm999999W. > gW99*~~~~VM9Ws ,m99*~~~~VM99m. > g999` '*99i W9Af Y99W. > 999[ '*9W_ ,g9Af 999b > 999W '*9W. . . g9Af i9999 > 9999W_ 'V9W. \. ./ g9A~ ,g99999 > 99999**Nm__ ~MW_. N. .N _g9f` ,_gm**M99999 > 9999| 89999mms___ ~MWm. [ ]` gm9f` ,___mmW9999| 8999P > 99999mmW99A***M9999999mms2M9s_,gY=Yo.,sW95_mmW9999999****999mmW9999[ > 999999999` '9999Af` ~VM999P 9999*~` ~*9999P Y99999999[ > M9999AM99s. ,g9999` '99[ 99P Y999W_ _W99*99999! > ]9999b'*999999999999b _999. d99b. ,999999999999Af,99999 > 'M9999i 'V*9999999999Wm__gmW9999[ ]9999mm__gm9999999999A*~ W9999f > M9999s ~~~~~~~~~~~~LmW99f '999ms7~~~~~~~~~~~` ,W9999! > V9999Ws_ ___mmW9999[ 999999mms__. ,_m9999A` > '~*999999999999A**f~ ]9A[ 999 '~***999999999999Af~ > 2999A*~~` d999 ][]9. ~~V*999K. > ,gW9A~ ,_W9! 9[ ]9 M9s_ 'V99m_ > i999A ,_W99f` i9[ 9i ~M99s_ !999W > !9999ms_______mW99Af` d99A\ /999. ~*999ms_______mW999A > Y9999f~~~~~~~~~` gW9f~ ++'~M9m. ~~~~~~~~~~M9999` > V999 ,gm9Af` ~*9Wm_ ]99A` > ~*Nm______mmW99Af '*999mms_____gm*f` > 99999999 99999999 and some that I created: >> butterfly << 10/96 _ _ / `._ _.' \ ( @ : `. .' : @ ) \ `. `. ._ _. .' .' / \;' `. `. \ / .' .' `;/ \`. `. \ \_/ / .' .'/ ) :-._`. \ (:) / .'_.-: ( (`.....,`.\/:\/.',.....') >------._|:::|_.------< / .'._>_.-|:::|-._<_.'. \ |o _.-'_.-^|:|^-._`-._ o| |`' ;_.-'|:|`-._; `'| jgs ".o_.-' ;."|:|".; `-._o." ".__." \:/ ".__." ^ * butterfly characture * 11/96 _ _ (o\ /o) /::\ o o /::\ /:'':\ \___/ /:'':\ /:' ':\/6 . 6\/:' ':\ (o:. '( ._. )' .:o) _.-'''-. `\:. \ / .:/` .' '. `\:. /`---'\ .:/` : : `)://`===`\\:(` '. .' /:(/\-===-/\):\ '. .' /:'.,/ /^\ \,.':\ '..' jgs /:.:/(_/ \_)\:.:\ .''._ (::/` : `\::) .' `-....-'` \o) '. (o/ .' ^ '. ^ .' `'''''''''` -=[ small butterfly ]=- 3/97 , , { \w/ } `>!<` jgs (/^\) ' ' -=[ butterfly ]=- 3/97 __ \/ __ /o \{}/ o\ \ () / `> /\ <` jgs (o/\/\o) ) ( -=[ butterfly ]=- 3/98 .-=-. .-=-. ( 0 \V/ 0 ) \ O / `.__ # __.' .' # '. jgs (o /#\ o) )/' '\( ( ) -=[ butterflies ]=- 1/99 __ __ \o`-. V .-`o/ ) '#' ( \_ .-#-. _/ /` # `\ \o /V\ o/ jgs )/ \( '` `' _ /o`\ _\| | `#, <_ '#, `\ jgs '#.o/ ` _ /`o\ | |/_ _> ,#' /` ,#' jgs \o.#' ` -=[ butterfly ]=- 2/99 .--. .--. ' \ / ' .-""-. \ / .-""-. / \ \ / / \ \ \ \ / / / ) \ \ / / ( / \ \_/ / \ | \/ \/ | \ \ / / '._ /;\ _.' `;-. ||| .-;` /` \ \;/ / `\ | / /|\ \ | \ '-' |;| '-' / jgs '. /|||\ .' '---' \;/ '---' -joan -- __ \/ __ /o \{}/ o\ \ () / joan stark <spu...@juno.com> `> /\ <` jgs (o/\/\o) ASCII ART GALLERY: ) ( <http://www.ascii-art.com>
This group has been flooded with pretty butterflies lately, here's one of
mine. I drew it for the ASCII competition of a French demoparty IGDRP and
it was shown there, but due to an error, the votes of ASCII compo were not
calculated so I'll never know how I ranked. Anyway, here it is, it looks
best in Amiga font (Topaz New) if you can use that.
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%. _ /) That's why I didn't kill myself sooner, the pressure
`%-('`._/ ) _ of spelling mistakes. -"5 Suicide Notes" by Saracen Tate
`\ \ `'/ Maija Haavisto * DiamonDie @ IRCnet&Undernet
`.___.'mh http://www.angelfire.com/mn/Maija/
By the way, Maybe it's just me but it seems that this group is not visited by "sceners". I think it's odd since they use a lot of ascii art in all of their productions, and in .nfo files that come with them or with "warez". Some of the artists are very talented, and it would be cool to see some of their work here... Oh and while I'm at it: is there an "official" home page for this group? If not it could be cool to have one, for example we could have a list of the "regular" people here, an official mirror to the faq, a collection of great ascii-art... Stuffs like that? It could also be used for the organization of the ascii-con that some talked about before :) Well it's just a thought... BoD Maija Haavisto wrote: > This group has been flooded with pretty butterflies lately, here's > one of mine. I drew it for the ASCII competition of a French > demoparty IGDRP and it was shown there, but due to an error, the > votes of ASCII compo were not calculated so I'll never know how I > ranked. Anyway, here it is, it looks best in Amiga font (Topaz New) > if you can use that.
BoD wrote: > Maybe it's just me but it seems that this group is not visited by "sceners". I think it is, but they don't say much (or they "stay neutral" while they're here). Maybe because they already have their own forums elsewhere? Maybe they see this group as "another scene" (i.e. somebody else's "territory")? Maybe because they use ansi codes and don't like the "stick to plain ascii" attitude here? I don't know. > Oh and while I'm at it: is there an "official" home page for this group? I think there was one in 1996, but the owner (Scarecrow) got tired after a while and quit. > If > not it could be cool to have one, for example we could have a list of the > "regular" people here, Joan has one big list of links to ascii artist's web pages. Then there are several "Who's who" lists. > an official mirror to the faq, Martin Atkins started something he called the "ada". There are several mirrors of that (one's on my homepage). > a collection of great ascii-art... There are several of those as well (e.g. Andreas' homepage). -- ##### c ^ OO /\\\\ ##### | /|\ `^^^^^^^%-- '||` | \\\\ ####-[.]\ / \ " " \ ha ha ha dd /[.]-\\\| ### _| |_ \\| ### (_ http://www.ludd.luth.se/~vk/cgi/asciichat/ _)} == \ / A S C I I A R T C H A T # ||\
Sun, 18 May 2003 05:56:30 +0200, "BoD" <Bo...@JRAF.org> kirjoitti: > By the way, > > Maybe it's just me but it seems that this group is not visited by "sceners". > I think it's odd since they use a lot of ascii art in all of their > productions, and in .nfo files that come with them or with "warez". Some of > the artists are very talented, and it would be cool to see some of their > work here... Please don't top post. There are several reasons why demosceners don't usually visit this group. They think their ASCII (which most of the time isn't even ASCII but ANSI or other extended characters) is real ASCII, while ours is not. Quite ridiculous, considering that ASCII art predated demoscene. They think creating logos requires real skill while we are just lamers. I've heard them call the style of mine and many others as "just some lame animals", newsgroup ASCII and Geocities ASCII (I think Joan is to thank for that). Logos do require talent, even though the lineart ones seem rather easy. I've tried that style and it's quite hard if you don't want to copy anyone else's style but still stay in the genre. But I think I could master if I practised. I just don't see the reason, I like real pictures so much more. Besides, most of the time Figlet produces prettier results. :P I don't mean that the logomakers should convert to using Figlet, but something is wrong if their logos don't look as good. And it seems like they lack imagination. Most logos are either blocky or graffiti style, there are hardly any that resemble hand-writing, for instance. And why draw only logos? There are many scene artists that draw other things, but that always seems to be ANSI, though they call it ASCII "because it doesn't have blocks". And one more reasons: demoscene artists prefer to release in "collies" (collections) or artpacks. There are still some groups that release packs regularly. It's understandable in a way and it would be cool if we here released our own pack some day. I've thought about releasing my Pokemon collection as one pack if I ever finish it. Demoscene artists have their own portals, forums and groups, such as www.acheron.org. -- %. _ /) That's why I didn't kill myself sooner, the pressure `%-('`._/ ) _ of spelling mistakes. -"5 Suicide Notes" by Saracen Tate `\ \ `'/ Maija Haavisto * DiamonDie @ IRCnet&Undernet `.___.'mh http://www.angelfire.com/mn/Maija/
Well I think you are right about all that (except maybe the part about "real ascii")... I guess I'm just sad, because I like this group, but I also really love logos, and the "graffiti style" :) Of course I could check the others media you mentioned but it would be great to see them here. BoD Maija Haavisto wrote: > Sun, 18 May 2003 05:56:30 +0200, "BoD" <Bo...@JRAF.org> kirjoitti: >> By the way, >> >> Maybe it's just me but it seems that this group is not visited by >> "sceners". I think it's odd since they use a lot of ascii art in all >> of their productions, and in .nfo files that come with them or with >> "warez". Some of the artists are very talented, and it would be cool >> to see some of their work here... > > Please don't top post. > > There are several reasons why demosceners don't usually visit this > group. They think their ASCII (which most of the time isn't even > ASCII but ANSI > or other extended characters) is real ASCII, while ours is not. Quite > ridiculous, considering that ASCII art predated demoscene. They think > creating logos requires real skill while we are just lamers. I've > heard them call the style of mine and many others as "just some lame > animals", newsgroup ASCII and Geocities ASCII (I think Joan is to > thank for that). > > Logos do require talent, even though the lineart ones seem rather > easy. I've tried that style and it's quite hard if you don't want to > copy anyone else's style but still stay in the genre. But I think I > could master if I > practised. I just don't see the reason, I like real pictures so much > more. Besides, most of the time Figlet produces prettier results. :P > I don't mean that the logomakers should convert to using Figlet, but > something is wrong > if their logos don't look as good. And it seems like they lack > imagination. Most logos are either blocky or graffiti style, there > are hardly any that resemble hand-writing, for instance. And why draw > only logos? There are > many scene artists that draw other things, but that always seems to > be ANSI, though they call it ASCII "because it doesn't have blocks". > > And one more reasons: demoscene artists prefer to release in "collies" > (collections) or artpacks. There are still some groups that release > packs regularly. It's understandable in a way and it would be cool if > we here released our own pack some day. I've thought about releasing > my Pokemon collection as one pack if I ever finish it. > > Demoscene artists have their own portals, forums and groups, such as > www.acheron.org.
"BoD" <Bo...@JRAF.org> wrote in message news:3ec98162$0$30753$626...@news.free.fr... > Well I think you are right about all that (except maybe the part about "real > ascii")... > I guess I'm just sad, because I like this group, but I also really love > logos, and the "graffiti style" :) > Of course I could check the others media you mentioned but it would be great > to see them here. > > BoD I was part of both "scenes" for years. _______ _,.--'''''' - ''`-...__ /''___...--- - ---.. `.._ .,--' `- __ `-. . .'/ ___..-------- - ''---'-. `. /J ,-'' __,. - .._ `-'-. `\ ,// | _..--''' _ '-._| ` \ / | ,' ,-' _..--' - _____ `\| ' `. ,' / ,' , ,.-' _.- '-'| | \ ' / .',' / ,- _,' : : -. '.| | \ | /' //' /' . / | \ \ \ \+ | | | // .'/ | |.' | | | '. +\ | \ ||/ J| / / | | '. '. | '.\ \ \ ||| | | | ,' | | \ \ | || || | || J J ,' | /_ | | | ,| | | | || | | .'|. .||/'| | / | + |\' | | | || | | . | \ ./ |,'|/'|'/\ _'|,'| / / | | L || | | |'.| |'--..._` | /| ,' |'_,.. - || | | /L | / | \|,..... -'\ |/ |/ . ..... |\ | .' | | | | | `._( )\ /( )_.' | | / | .\ J | \ ''''' '```` /' .| | | | | | .| ,.'| | |.'. | _\. / / | | || || | \'\: / | / | +L||-\...__ -._ / / | | | | '||.+ \ _ '`-.:._ _ _ /'| J| J | \\ +` \ -. ` `...' ,' | | | | | || |. . _ _ /' | | | | | '. | \ \''------;' ,'.' | | | | | || |\ `._ '-.._..' ,/ | | / | L \ || |\ '-. ,|'' | | | | '| | '.| \ `\ ` J || | | | | | \ || | \ '.. ,-' /| | | | | L. '. || ` -. '''`-' | '| | / | | | | | | '-.. `. '''-'\ ._....._| | | | | '. ` ||_ `. ' . | /+ \ /'|'`. \ `. \_' ,-,/. \ \ \ \,,' _--..__ _,/,/ ` \ \ \ \'\ || ..__'--......___./, -, `` \ \ . \ \ '' ||`'+--..... . -'\\ \\ | | | \ \ ||' || || \\ \\ " \ \ | \ \ || || \\ " \ \ ' \ \ \ \ / \ . \ \ |/ | . \ \ | | . ' \ | \ . \ \| \ \ \ `. | \ \ \ | \ \ `. ' \ Y \ | \ . | \ | ' ` J ` | `. ` / \ J `. ` / ' | `._ ` ' ` | '-._ ` . : J `-.._ . / | -. : / ' | `\: . ,' J Y ,' ' / |-._/ ' / | / _,_,.' .' | Y , -' ' | J | | ,..--' | _-. /.- _/ | -.._ _, -''' ,'/ | '-...._________,.-'' ,-' / | __,,-' |\ |_ __.-.'' | \ '`-..___ _____, -'' /'\ | \ \ '''-------'' / \ | \ \ / \ _.'| \ | / \ _.-' | \ | / -' | \ |`-._ / \ \ | '--..____,......---' \ \ ,' \ . ,' /\ . .' / \ . ' \ / \ \ ( ) / \ \ / \ \ / dp __________________ __________ \ / __________ ___________/__ /__/________ /___________________\ /__ \ / / / /___________ _____________ / /__ / / / / /________/__ / / / / / / / / / / / __/ / / / __/ / / / / /______/ / / / / / /___________/ /____|__/____/ / __/ | / / /____|__/____/ /____/_____| / / /____________/ / z I M M E R __________ / /__________\ /_____________________________\ .--. `. \ \ \ . \ : . | . | : | | ..._ ___ | | `."".`''''""--..___ | | ,-\ \ ""-...__ _____________/ | / ` " ' `"""""""" . \ L (> \ / \ \_ ___..---. L `--' '. \ . \_ _/`. `.._ .' -. `. / __.-Y /''''''-...___,...--------.._ | / _." | / ' . \ '---..._ | / / / / _,. ' ,/ | | \_,' _.' / /'' _,-' _| | ' / `-----'' / | `...-' dp `...-' ____________________________________ / / __________/ / zIMMER _______/_ /__________ /___________ \ / / / / /__________ _____ _____ / / / / / \ /_______\_ \ / / ______/ /_______/ / / \ / / / /____________/ /_____/_____/ / / / / / _______/ /_____\_____/ / / / / /______ / / /_____\_____/ /____ / / / | / / /_________/ / / /_____________/_____/_____| / / / / / /_____/_____/_ / / / / /___________/ / / j o h n n y c r a s h /_____/_____/ / / / /______________________________________________/ I could never understand why there was so little cross-over. ===== ##### ===================== dav...@ntlworld.com ======================== ==== #### _\_========================================================================== ==== ##~~<#)#) === Woe to you, on earth and sea, for the Devil sends the beast with === ==== #( _\ ==== wrath, beacause he knows the time is short. Let him who hath === ===== # __| ==== understanding reckon the number of the beast. For it is a human === ====== \ _/ ===== number, its number, is six hundred and sixty six ............... === ====_.-'==='-._======================================================================== == ' ' ========== http://homepage.ntlworld.com/palmer666 ====================
Wow GREAT !! :) BoD David Palmer wrote: > > I was part of both "scenes" for years. >
What is a demoscener? It's amazing how people (already in a small,
geeky group of ASCII artists) will try to narrow it down even more
into smaller and geekier groups. This was a friendly group, reading it
now it sounds like a stuck up bunch of ASCII snobs. Surely there are
some of you from the old bunch still around. Or did you get tired of
it and bail too?
It's been awhile since I made anything new but I do visit the group
now and then. I still keep my pages up and I edit the ASCII art
category at Dmoz. If you submit it I will (eventually) list it.
Laura, Proud to be an ordinary geeky ASCII artist.
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\_/_(/| | |#| | | ) '-.___//
--w-w---'-'----'-'----'-'----------'-----------ldb---
/\_/\
/\ |6 6| /\
/ \ \<">/ / \
/ ,__`~)-(~___, \
/.',-'`/_/`'-, '.\
,' \_\ ',
: \|\ ;
', /|/ ,'
ldb '-,__\W\_,-))
((
)
------------------------------------------------
|> ...for you are
/_\ crunchy and taste
( |\/| ._._|_|_._. good dipped in
) .---._(qp) |_|_|#|_|_| chocolate.
(_(_,_(_,-^^ ((
______________________))_____________________ldb
On Mon, 19 May 2003 16:03:46 GMT, Maija Haavisto
<mai...@dontspambut.writeme.com> wrote:
>Sun, 18 May 2003 05:56:30 +0200, "BoD" <Bo...@JRAF.org> kirjoitti:
>Please don't top post.
Please don't bottom post, it's so fricking annoying. If I want to read
the old stuff I can scroll down for it. Why do you think blogs are set
up to have the newest post first, not last.
>
>There are several reasons why demosceners don't usually visit this group.
>They think their ASCII (which most of the time isn't even ASCII but ANSI
>or other extended characters) is real ASCII, while ours is not. Quite
>ridiculous, considering that ASCII art predated demoscene. They think
>creating logos requires real skill while we are just lamers. I've heard them
>call the style of mine and many others as "just some lame animals", newsgroup
>ASCII and Geocities ASCII (I think Joan is to thank for that).
>
*** post for FREE via your newsreader at post.newsfeed.com ***
On 2003-05-24 she...@lycos.com said:
> What is a demoscener? It's amazing how people (already in a small,
> geeky group of ASCII artists) will try to narrow it down even more
> into smaller and geekier groups. This was a friendly group, reading
> it now it sounds like a stuck up bunch of ASCII snobs. Surely there
> are some of you from the old bunch still around. Or did you get
> tired of it and bail too?
>
> It's been awhile since I made anything new but I do visit the group
> now and then. I still keep my pages up and I edit the ASCII art
> category at Dmoz. If you submit it I will (eventually) list it.
>
> Laura, Proud to be an ordinary geeky ASCII artist.
_____
Awhh, don't take it too seriously, ((( `\
Laura. Most people will persist in _ _`\ )
joining "groups," so that they can (^ ) )
feel that "We're better than Them." ~-( )
_'((,,,)))
It's simply a perversity of human ,-' \_/ `\
nature...as annoying as it might ( , |
be to those of us who are inde- `-.-'`-.-'/|_|
pendent thinkers and/or "loners." \ / | |
=()=: / ,' aa
Don't let it rattle your cage.
Some good ASCII art still shows up
in this newsgroup occasionally.
Obligatory ASCII:
_/ \_/ _.. _
_' `-. / / /'''\\
/ \| / / _ _|\
/ \ / ) _' |\
; | _/-')\ `-'/' \
| | | _.-' ` -'( |
` `\ @ / _, )/ \
`\ `\ \ \-'. . \ \ |
:`\ | | \ \ | \ `\ \|
`. `\ \ / \ ;' 0) 0 \
| `\. `"-._\ \ `.__.'__.' `\
| "-.__ \ \ / `\ `.
) / ,\_./' \ / `\ \
.' |.' <//::\)' \ `,__
/ #'| </ ||\ |/--\\\
| \#.-\ `' \
| )_.-`\ \
\ |( `\ |
| | ) |`\ \
| |-' | `\ |
\ | \ \
-----= Posted via Newsfeed.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeed.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
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_.--- Laura T spoke in alt.ascii-art --------._ > What is a demoscener? The people who do the ascii art for the nfo files that come with warezed software. For more info look at some of the key/serial documents that come with the software available on http://astalavista.box.sk/ > It's amazing how people (already in a small, > geeky group of ASCII artists) will try to narrow it down even more > into smaller and geekier groups. It has been said that you can't distingwish a reasonably advanced science from magic. Well it is also true that as soon as you get enough people into a group that factions will start to exist in it. It is one thing to non-homophobic. It is another thing to be proud of your pre-oprative transsexual lesbian son. There will always be sub groups. It is the way of the world. And the question was "why don't demosceners post here?". Not "we hate those guys because ...". The first one is curiosity. The second one is what you are complaing about. I think you are a touch off base. The only group I am in is alt.ascii-art. Thats enough for me. It gives me a place to post my art. I don't care what other people post as long as it is ASCII art and not some other kind of art. I do 3d ascii, butterfly ascii, comic ascii and of course ASScii. > This was a friendly group, reading it now it sounds like a stuck up > bunch of ASCII snobs. This isn't a friendly group? This is one of the friendlest newsgroups I have ever seen. The only time any one insults someone else is in jest and that is usually limited to Kirra (sp?) and Tran. > >>Please don't top post. Let me second that. Don't top post. Its bad. http://asciipr0n.com/fp/linux/top-posting.txt > Please don't bottom post, it's so fricking annoying. If I want to read > the old stuff I can scroll down for it. Why do you think blogs are set > up to have the newest post first, not last. Because people are to lazy to learn. A: Because it upsets the natural flow of reading. Q: Why is top posting so rude? -- Springfield '---...____ Faux_Pseudo ________________...---~~~ -- .-')) http://asciipr0n.com/fp ('-. | The man who can't spell a word ' ..- .:" ) Updated ( ":. -.. ' | more than one way lacks ((,,_;'.;' 05 / 06 ';. ';_,,)) | creativity. ((_.;'*Faux_Pseudo*':._)) | -- W.C. Fields
Faux_Pseudo <Fau...@yahoo.comERCIAL> wrote in news:slrnbd0160.26i.Faux_Pseudo@fugozi.cx1209071-a: >>>Please don't top post. > > Let me second that. Don't top post. Its bad. > http://asciipr0n.com/fp/linux/top-posting.txt Agreed. -- http://users.bigpond.net.au/abcgi "Life is mostly froth and bubble, Two things stand like stone, Kindness in another's trouble, And courage in your own." - ALG
Don't be so damned anal. I personally don't have a problem with either top or bottom posting, and prefer top-posting in email correspondence. I do, however, dislike the mixing of the two in a long thread, without snipping the content not germane to the reply. ABCGi <abc...@codemonkey.com.au> wrote: >>>>Please don't top post. >> Let me second that. Don't top post. Its bad. >> http://asciipr0n.com/fp/linux/top-posting.txt >Agreed. -- Guidelines for Summary Replies Summary replies are the preferred method to replying to electronic communication. It gives the most flexibility to replies as well as gives the best emphasis to the reply. In a reply, the response is the primary focus of the message, not the original message. An example of a summary reply is as follows: I like what you have to say, though I think a red ball should be used instead of a blue ball. "Original Message from Somebody <som...@somebox.com>:" > A blue ball should be the preferred ball in all schoolyard > activities. This is to make the ball visible... As in the above example, the response is contained above the "Original Message" line (though the actual text of this line varies between mail/newsreaders. There should be (1) one blank line between the last line of the response and the "Original Message" line. The original message should still be trimmed to the necessary and relevant pieces the response is responding to. Frequently, response are only a few sentences for length messages, therefore Summary replies provide the best method of putting the emphasis on the reply, and not on the original message. This is true for even lengthy replies, where generally, people reply to a message as a whole and reference specific pieces of the original message.
On Sat, 24 May 2003 17:41:11 -0400, Laura T. <she...@lycos.com> wrote: > > >What is a demoscener? It's amazing how people (already in a small, >geeky group of ASCII artists) will try to narrow it down even more >into smaller and geekier groups. This was a friendly group, reading it >now it sounds like a stuck up bunch of ASCII snobs. Surely there are >some of you from the old bunch still around. Or did you get tired of >it and bail too? It still is a friendly group, and any group will have a flare up or two. Its only natural. Its part of the growth of the indivaul or indivauls who have something more in interest to try to experiment with other things. Snobs ? its only from your view. its how you see it. >It's been awhile since I made anything new but I do visit the group >now and then. I still keep my pages up and I edit the ASCII art >category at Dmoz. If you submit it I will (eventually) list it. When you decide to hit a few keystokes post the art would like to see it. Was on your mailing list for ascii info ( thinking that what it was called ) untill it ceased. Tried to join dmoz once and to post. It never worked. >Laura, Proud to be an ordinary geeky ASCII artist. :) Be proud an stand tall an may you never have to eat the feathers of a crow :) > > >>Please don't top post. > >Please don't bottom post, it's so fricking annoying. If I want to read >the old stuff I can scroll down for it. Why do you think blogs are set >up to have the newest post first, not last. Center post it confuses every one ;) lgbeard
_
__ ___ ( )
|""| ___ _ __ |"""| __ `
|""| |"""| |"| |""| |"""| |""| _._ _
|""| |"""| |"| |""| |"""| |""| (__((_(
|""| |"""| |"| |""| |"""| |""| \'-:--:-.
"'''"''"'""'"""''"''''"""'""'""'~~~~~~'-----'~~~~ ldb
I like the modern/anchient contrast of this drawing,
here is another drawing based on the same principle,
it is not as nice as your, but it fits better what I
am used to see in real life: anchient building and
new boats (also anchient boats now and then, but not
daily).
o_.-._ . . .
|_.-._| . . . '
| . '. '
^^^^^^^ :'
^^^ ^^^ | : : | ^^^ ^^^ .; o t o
| |_| |_| |_| |_| | .. p p p
| | .--++-. o t
| : : .-. : : | .__|]_[]_'-......
| | | | \ o o o '=-=-=-!
"'"''""'"""''''"'"''""'''~~~~~~~~\_____________|~~~~MC~~~~
Michele Cerulli
In article <oso...@4ax.com>, she...@lycos.com
says...
>
>
>
>What is a demoscener? It's amazing how people (already in a small,
>geeky group of ASCII artists) will try to narrow it down even more
>into smaller and geekier groups. This was a friendly group, reading it
>now it sounds like a stuck up bunch of ASCII snobs. Surely there are
>some of you from the old bunch still around. Or did you get tired of
>it and bail too?
>
>It's been awhile since I made anything new but I do visit the group
>now and then. I still keep my pages up and I edit the ASCII art
>category at Dmoz. If you submit it I will (eventually) list it.
>
>Laura, Proud to be an ordinary geeky ASCII artist.
>
>
> , ,
> /\ |V| /\
> / ((")) *\
> \ |_/_\_/ /
> \_(()))_/
> _/ \_ ldb
>
>
> \_/
> --(_)--
> / \
> ,-, .----.
> |-| /______\ __ __
> | | | __ | (())())
> | | | |><| | )( )(
> .-''''''''''''-.-'''''''-. ldb
>
>
> ,, .-.
> || | ) )
> || | , '-'
> || | | |
> || '--' |
> ,, || .----'
> || | || |
> | '---'| |
> '------.| | _____
> ((_)) || | ( _ / /|\ \
> (o o) || | ))("), | | | | |
> ____\_/___||_|_____((__^_))____________________\_\|/_/__ldb
>
>
> ____
> /^\ / -- )
> / | \ (____/
> / | | \ / /
> /_|_|_|_/ /
> | / /
> __ __ __ | / /__ __ __
>[ ]__[ ]__[ ]. / /[ ]__[ ]__[ ]
>|__ ____/ /___ __|
> | / .------ ) |
> | / / / |
> | / / / |
>~~~~~~~~~~~~-----------~~~~~~~~ldb~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
>
>
> _
> __ ___ ( )
> |""| ___ _ __ |"""| __ `
> |""| |"""| |"| |""| |"""| |""| _._ _
> |""| |"""| |"| |""| |"""| |""| (__((_(
> |""| |"""| |"| |""| |"""| |""| \'-:--:-.
> "'''"''"'""'"""''"''''"""'""'""'~~~~~~'-----'~~~~ ldb
>
>
> , ,
> , /|_|\ ,
> /( ( @ @ ) )\ /|
> //\ \ / /\\((
> // '-/'-'\-' \\))
> |( | (=) | )|(
> \ (\\=//) /)
> \|\|\/"""\/|/|/` ldb
>
>
>
> \_/
> --(_)--
> / \ |> v-v-v-v |>
> , , /_\ | | /_\
> |\_/| | |'''''''''''| | |\
> (q p),-| | || _ || | |'-._ ))
> \_/_(/| | |#| | | ) '-.___//
> --w-w---'-'----'-'----'-'----------'-----------ldb---
>
>
> /\_/\
> /\ |6 6| /\
> / \ \<">/ / \
> / ,__`~)-(~___, \
> /.',-'`/_/`'-, '.\
> ,' \_\ ',
> : \|\ ;
> ', /|/ ,'
> ldb '-,__\W\_,-))
> ((
> )
>
> ------------------------------------------------
> |> ...for you are
> /_\ crunchy and taste
> ( |\/| ._._|_|_._. good dipped in
> ) .---._(qp) |_|_|#|_|_| chocolate.
> (_(_,_(_,-^^ ((
> ______________________))_____________________ldb
>
>
>
>
>On Mon, 19 May 2003 16:03:46 GMT, Maija Haavisto
><mai...@dontspambut.writeme.com> wrote:
>
>>Sun, 18 May 2003 05:56:30 +0200, "BoD" <Bo...@JRAF.org> kirjoitti:
>
>>Please don't top post.
>
>Please don't bottom post, it's so fricking annoying. If I want to read
>the old stuff I can scroll down for it. Why do you think blogs are set
>up to have the newest post first, not last.
>>
>>There are several reasons why demosceners don't usually visit this group.
>>They think their ASCII (which most of the time isn't even ASCII but ANSI
>>or other extended characters) is real ASCII, while ours is not. Quite
>>ridiculous, considering that ASCII art predated demoscene. They think
>>creating logos requires real skill while we are just lamers. I've heard them
>>call the style of mine and many others as "just some lame animals", newsgroup
>>ASCII and Geocities ASCII (I think Joan is to thank for that).
>>
Emil Nitrate <ani...@teatmsn.com> wrote in news:3ee7846c.121904343
@pita.alt.net:
> Don't be so damned anal.
Why not?
--
http://users.bigpond.net.au/abcgi
"Life is mostly froth and bubble, Two things stand like stone,
Kindness in another's trouble, And courage in your own." - ALG
> jest and that is usually limited to Kirra (sp?) and Tran. Sorry to ask that but I see this abbreviation ("sp?") often, and I don't know what it means. Thanks for your help :) BoD Faux_Pseudo wrote: >
"BoD" <Bo...@JRAF.org> skrev i en meddelelse news:3ed36ad4$0$24012$626...@news.free.fr... > > jest and that is usually limited to Kirra (sp?) and Tran. > > Sorry to ask that but I see this abbreviation ("sp?") often, and I don't > know what it means. I've wondered that too for quite some time, I came to the conclusion that it probably means "spelling?". Someone correct me if Im wrong! -- Ivan Vos Thrys�e
>>>jest and that is usually limited to Kirra (sp?) and Tran. >>Sorry to ask that but I see this abbreviation ("sp?") often, and I don't >>know what it means. > I've wondered that too for quite some time, I came to the conclusion that it > probably means "spelling?". Someone correct me if Im wrong! It's either the abbreviation of "spelling?" itself, or of "spelled properly?" -- so you concluded right. -- |\/|\/|/\|\ /|\/|\ /\ | /|||| | \/ |||| \| | Jan Willms <Khamura> | \| |()|()()|()| /|()| kha...@jointhesaga.com |/\||||/\|/\/\|\/| \|/\|
Ok thank you very much :) BoD Jan Willms <Khamura> wrote: >>>> jest and that is usually limited to Kirra (sp?) and Tran. >>> Sorry to ask that but I see this abbreviation ("sp?") often, and I >>> don't know what it means. >> I've wondered that too for quite some time, I came to the conclusion >> that it probably means "spelling?". Someone correct me if Im wrong! > > It's either the abbreviation of "spelling?" itself, or of "spelled > properly?" -- so you concluded right.
On Sat, 24 May 2003, Faux_Pseudo wrote: > > _.--- Laura T spoke in alt.ascii-art --------._ > > What is a demoscener? > > The people who do the ascii art for the nfo files that come with > warezed software. For more info look at some of the key/serial > documents that come with the software available on > http://astalavista.box.sk/ Actually, most demo-sceners [IMLE] don't (didn't?) do ANSI art at all, nor do (did?) they crack software. They wrote awesome graphical demos, such as Second Reality, and Dreams, and suchlike, of which I have several and can no longer find a computer to run them. Darn Microsoft to heck. OTOH, some of the best ASCII art I've ever seen came from Mr Kite, a.k.a. Shawn something-or-other, who belonged to a mostly-ANSI, mostly-fugly-sigs group around what was [IMHO] the golden age of the demoscene. So. > >>Please don't top post. I'm with lgbeard on this one... > Let me second that. Don't top post. Its bad. > http://asciipr0n.com/fp/linux/top-posting.txt > > > Please don't bottom post, it's so fricking annoying. If I want to read > > the old stuff I can scroll down for it. Why do you think blogs are set > > up to have the newest post first, not last. ...center-posting confuses everyone. ;-) > Because people are to lazy to learn. > > A: Because it upsets the natural flow of reading. > Q: Why is top posting so rude? > -- Springfield -Arthur
By the way I recommend this faq http://www.ojuice.net/faq.htm to answer questions like "what is a demo", "what is a scener" :) BoD Arthur J. O'Dwyer wrote: > On Sat, 24 May 2003, Faux_Pseudo wrote: >> >> _.--- Laura T spoke in alt.ascii-art --------._ >>> What is a demoscener? >> >> The people who do the ascii art for the nfo files that come with >> warezed software. For more info look at some of the key/serial >> documents that come with the software available on >> http://astalavista.box.sk/ > > Actually, most demo-sceners [IMLE] don't (didn't?) do ANSI art at > all, nor do (did?) they crack software. They wrote awesome graphical > demos, such as Second Reality, and Dreams, and suchlike, of which I > have several and can no longer find a computer to run them. Darn > Microsoft to heck.
In message <3ed36ad4$0$24012$626...@news.free.fr> "BoD" <Bo...@JRAF.org> wrote: >> jest and that is usually limited to Kirra (sp?) and Tran. > >Sorry to ask that but I see this abbreviation ("sp?") often, and I don't >know what it means. >Thanks for your help :) > >BoD "Spelling in question" also abbreviated at (sic).
In message <Xns938890EB32002abcgi@61.9.128.12> ABCGi <abc...@codemonkey.com.au> wrote: >Emil Nitrate <ani...@teatmsn.com> wrote in news:3ee7846c.121904343 >@pita.alt.net: > >> Don't be so damned anal. > >Why not? No reason, really. Be that way if you want.
On Tue, 27 May 2003, Emil Nitrate wrote: > > In message <3ed36ad4$0$24012$626...@news.free.fr> "BoD" wrote: > > >> jest and that is usually limited to Kirra (sp?) and Tran. > > > >Sorry to ask that but I see this abbreviation ("sp?") often, and I don't > >know what it means. > >Thanks for your help :) > > "Spelling in question" also abbreviated at (sic). As long as we're being anal, [sic] usually connotes disapproval of someone _else's_ spelling or grammar; while [sp?] usually connotes doubt of one's _own_ spelling (never grammar). E.g.: I have a moustache. (sp?) The New York Times reports that I have "a mustach [sic]." [sic], AFAIK, literally means "it was/is that way" (cf. "Sic transit gloria," "Sic semper tyrannis," etc.) Thus, the writer is reassuring the devoted reader that what he wrote was, in fact, what he meant to write. The New Yorker, I believe, once held a contest to see who could come up with the most ridiculous takeoffs on literary themes. I only remember one of the entries, but it's a topical doozy: O Sleepless as the river under thee, Vaulting the sea, the prairies' dreaming sod, Unto us lowliest sometime sweep, descend And of the curveship [sic] lend a myth to God. -Arthur
Emil Nitrate <ani...@teatmsn.com> wrote in news:3ed50516.46211390 @pita.alt.net: >>> Don't be so damned anal. >> >>Why not? > > No reason, really. Be that way if you want. What if I don't? -- http://users.bigpond.net.au/abcgi "Life is mostly froth and bubble, Two things stand like stone, Kindness in another's trouble, And courage in your own." - ALG
In message <Pin...@unix48.andrew.cmu.edu> "Arthur J. O'Dwyer" <aj...@andrew.cmu.edu> wrote: >[sic], AFAIK, literally means "it was/is that way" (cf. "Sic transit >gloria," "Sic semper tyrannis," etc.) Thus, the writer is reassuring >the devoted reader that what he wrote was, in fact, what he meant to >write. You are entirely correct "written as intended". I had a brain fart [sic]. ;D
In message <Xns938995E61DBF1abcgi@61.9.128.12> ABCGi <abc...@codemonkey.com.au> wrote: >Emil Nitrate <ani...@teatmsn.com> wrote in news:3ed50516.46211390 >@pita.alt.net: > >>>> Don't be so damned anal. >>> >>>Why not? >> >> No reason, really. Be that way if you want. > >What if I don't? That would be up to you.
That one started as a doodle, to see how small I could make a tall ship. I like it too, it's one of my favourites. Your castle is great. Here is a diddle of it. Just an idea. :) > > o_.-._ . . . > |_.-._| . . . ' > | . '. ' > |MMMMM| :' > |M| |M| | : : | |M| |M| .; o t o > | |_| |_| |_| |_| | .. p p p > | | .--++-. o t > | : : .-. : : | .__|]_[]_'-...... > | | | | \ o o o '=-=-=-! > "'"''""'"""''''"'"''""'''~~~~~~~~\_____________|~~~~MC~~~~ > On Mon, 26 May 2003 10:38:22 +0000 (UTC), cer...@dm.unipi.it (Michele Cerulli) wrote: > > o_.-._ . . . > |_.-._| . . . ' > | . '. ' > ^^^^^^^ :' > ^^^ ^^^ | : : | ^^^ ^^^ .; o t o > | |_| |_| |_| |_| | .. p p p > | | .--++-. o t > | : : .-. : : | .__|]_[]_'-...... > | | | | \ o o o '=-=-=-! > "'"''""'"""''''"'"''""'''~~~~~~~~\_____________|~~~~MC~~~~ > > >Michele Cerulli > >
Dmoz is just a web directory. The old list was at Wz.com but they folded. I was surprised at how many people subscribed to that list. Thanks for being one of them. :) The best ASCII list is still the Sig-List at Yahoo Groups now. Laura On Sun, 25 May 2003 08:09:14 -0500, lgbeard <lgb...@bullregraud.nut> wrote: >When you decide to hit a few keystokes post the art would like >to see it. Was on your mailing list for ascii info ( thinking >that what it was called ) untill it ceased. Tried to join dmoz >once and to post. It never worked.
Emil Nitrate <ani...@teatmsn.com> wrote in news:3ed542cd.62010250 @pita.alt.net: >>>>> Don't be so damned anal. >>>> >>>>Why not? >>> >>> No reason, really. Be that way if you want. >> >>What if I don't? > > That would be up to you. What if I don't want it to be down to me? -- http://users.bigpond.net.au/abcgi "Life is mostly froth and bubble, Two things stand like stone, Kindness in another's trouble, And courage in your own." - ALG
In message <Xns938AB3547AD9abcgi@61.9.128.12> ABCGi <abc...@codemonkey.com.au> wrote: >Emil Nitrate <ani...@teatmsn.com> wrote in news:3ed542cd.62010250 >@pita.alt.net: > >>>>>> Don't be so damned anal. >>>>> >>>>>Why not? >>>> >>>> No reason, really. Be that way if you want. >>> >>>What if I don't? >> >> That would be up to you. > >What if I don't want it to be down to me? You could always poll the audience... http://www.pollcaster.com/createapoll.shtml
Emil Nitrate <ani...@teatmsn.com> wrote in news:3ed580d8.3657765 @pita.alt.net: >>>>>>> Don't be so damned anal. >>>>>> >>>>>>Why not? >>>>> >>>>> No reason, really. Be that way if you want. >>>> >>>>What if I don't? >>> >>> That would be up to you. >> >>What if I don't want it to be down to me? > > You could always poll the audience... > http://www.pollcaster.com/createapoll.shtml Can I phone a friend? -- http://users.bigpond.net.au/abcgi "Life is mostly froth and bubble, Two things stand like stone, Kindness in another's trouble, And courage in your own." - ALG
<rant content="Do not top post"> Laura T. wrote: > Maija Haavisto wrote: > > > > Please don't top post. > > Please don't bottom post, it's so fricking annoying. Please don't top post. > If I want to read > the old stuff I can scroll down for it. There shouldn't be any old stuff to scroll down to, just a little bit of quoted material above your reply (to keep some context). The rest should be removed. > Why do you think blogs are set > up to have the newest post first, not last. Usenet is not email. Usenet is not a web site. Usenet is not a blog. Usenet is a place where lots of people try to communicate through text messages. These messages follow a format that has been developed over many years. Experience has shown that some things work, some things do not. Top posting is one of those things that do not work. Also, when you join an existing community it's usually best to follow the same rules as those who have been around a while, and in the case of Usenet one of those rules is: Do not top post. Email is different from Usenet in many ways. For example, in email between two friends you know that the other person has read all the previous messages, so there may be no point in keeping *any* old material. Another situation is email between you and a representative of some organization where you can't expect them to remember who you are. Then it may be necessary to quote the entire previous communication, below the newest comments. Then it makes sense to top-post. Usenet does not resemble either of those situations. A blog is a web site where posts are made by one person and updated with some frequency (e.g. once a day or once a week). Readers can expect the material to be linear. Regular readers can be expected to have already read the older contents, so it makes sense to put the newest first. Usenet discussions tend to fork off in different directions (sometimes even into different groups!). People join discussions "in the middle" (if one can even talk about "a middle"). Sometimes posts don't appear at all. You cannot expect people to have read the previous posts to a thread. It's sometimes not even clear what "previous" *means* in this context! </rant> Obascii VK the dragon fighter: _ .-. _)`-.__, /_ \ )_`-.__,| \ ).\_| `. ' )_ |F _.-' \_ \\\ \> ' ) F .--._.-'/ / .-' \ .-' `-.\\ \> '// < o __'_ ( _.- X__/ ( ( \\ \`^^^^^^^' `^^ ______\ `-.\ ` ) ( / `-. ______ .-' (____)` ) ) ) )) )__ | | / <.<.-.> \\__( | \ ) '-' -' That's a fire-breathing she-dragon, not an IPOS! This is an IPOS: Ha /| `. /F Ha \> .--./F \> (o\o vvvv. Ha \`^^^^^^^^^^^^ _.----' `-. ______ .-' ) ) ) )) )__ <.<.-.> \\__( -- ##### c ^ OO /\\\\ ##### | /|\ `^^^^^^^%-- '||` | \\\\ ####-[.]\ / \ " " \ ha ha ha dd /[.]-\\\| ### _| |_ \\| ### (_ http://www.ludd.luth.se/~vk/cgi/asciichat/ _)} == \ / A S C I I A R T C H A T # ||\
Me I find it more logical to top post: in the article n+1 the "new" content is more important than the content from article n. The more important thing should not appear in the end of the message, but at the top. It's not natural to have to scroll to the end of the page to read it. BoD Veronica Karlsson wrote: > <rant content="Do not top post"> > > Laura T. wrote: >> Maija Haavisto wrote: >>> >>> Please don't top post. >> >> Please don't bottom post, it's so fricking annoying. > > Please don't top post. > >> If I want to read >> the old stuff I can scroll down for it. > > There shouldn't be any old stuff to scroll down to, just a little bit > of quoted material above your reply (to keep some context). The rest > should be removed. > >> Why do you think blogs are set >> up to have the newest post first, not last. > > Usenet is not email. Usenet is not a web site. Usenet is not a blog. > > Usenet is a place where lots of people try to communicate through text > messages. These messages follow a format that has been developed over > many years. Experience has shown that some things work, some things do > not. Top posting is one of those things that do not work. Also, when > you join an existing community it's usually best to follow the same > rules as those who have been around a while, and in the case of > Usenet one of those rules is: Do not top post. > > Email is different from Usenet in many ways. For example, in email > between two friends you know that the other person has read all the > previous messages, so there may be no point in keeping *any* old > material. Another situation is email between you and a representative > of some organization where you can't expect them to remember who you > are. Then it may be necessary to quote the entire previous > communication, below the newest comments. Then it makes sense to > top-post. Usenet does not resemble either of those situations. > > A blog is a web site where posts are made by one person and updated > with some frequency (e.g. once a day or once a week). Readers can > expect the material to be linear. Regular readers can be expected to > have already read the older contents, so it makes sense to put the > newest first. Usenet discussions tend to fork off in different > directions (sometimes even into different groups!). People join > discussions "in the middle" (if one can even talk about "a middle"). > Sometimes posts don't appear at all. You cannot expect people to have > read the previous posts to a thread. It's sometimes not even clear > what "previous" *means* in this context! > > </rant>
Usenet is a free for all and not subject to the dictates of people who
demand conformism.
In message <3ED...@hotbrev.com> Veronica Karlsson
<v...@hotbrev.com> wrote:
>Usenet is not email. Usenet is not a web site. Usenet is not a blog.
Amen, brother. In message <3ed7edaa$0$4585$626...@news.free.fr> "BoD" <Bo...@JRAF.org> wrote: >Me I find it more logical to top post: in the article n+1 the "new" content >is more important than the content from article n. The more important thing >should not appear in the end of the message, but at the top. It's not >natural to have to scroll to the end of the page to read it. > >BoD
In message <Xns938B12F071631abcgi@61.9.128.12> ABCGi <abc...@codemonkey.com.au> wrote: >Emil Nitrate <ani...@teatmsn.com> wrote in news:3ed580d8.3657765 >@pita.alt.net: > >>>>>>>> Don't be so damned anal. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Why not? >>>>>> >>>>>> No reason, really. Be that way if you want. >>>>> >>>>>What if I don't? >>>> >>>> That would be up to you. >>> >>>What if I don't want it to be down to me? >> >> You could always poll the audience... >> http://www.pollcaster.com/createapoll.shtml > >Can I phone a friend? Yes, of course you can.
Veronica Karlsson wrote: > Laura T. wrote: > > Maija Haavisto wrote: > > > Please don't top post. > > Please don't bottom post, it's so fricking annoying. > Please don't top post. Yes, Please! More mud-wrestling... -- mic (\ I NEED LUNCH (\_\_^__o ___ `-'/ `_/ FEED ME NOW I NEED LUNCH '`--\______/ | ' / | WHEN'S MY BREAK?!!! [NmN] ` . ' `-`/.------'\^-'
Mic Barendsz wrote: > Veronica Karlsson wrote: > > Laura T. wrote: > > > Maija Haavisto wrote: > > > > Please don't top post. > > > Please don't bottom post, it's so fricking annoying. > > Please don't top post. > > Yes, Please! > More mud-wrestling... Sorry about that. I just *had to*! I guess it's because it was an otherwise sensible person who said something I didn't agree with. If it had been some random newbie I probably wouldn't have cared. :-) -- ##### c ^ OO /\\\\ ##### | /|\ `^^^^^^^%-- '||` | \\\\ ####-[.]\ / \ " " \ ha ha ha dd /[.]-\\\| ### _| |_ \\| ### (_ http://www.ludd.luth.se/~vk/cgi/asciichat/ _)} == \ / A S C I I A R T C H A T # ||\
Veronica Karlsson <v...@hotbrev.com> wrote: > Mic Barendsz wrote: > > Veronica Karlsson wrote: > > > Please don't top post. > > > > Yes, Please! > > More mud-wrestling... > > Sorry about that. I just *had to*! I guess it's because it was an > otherwise sensible person who said something I didn't agree with. If it > had been some random newbie I probably wouldn't have cared. :-) Haven't been here for ages. And the UseNet in general, for that matter. But Laura's complaint about 'stricktness' about Netiquette struck me. It's the same in the nl.* groups. Regulars complaining about the lack of newcomers, and on the other hand scaring them of with rules and rules and rules... mic
BoD wrote: > > Me I find it more logical to top post: in the article n+1 the "new" content > is more important than the content from article n. If article n+1 is a response to article n then it often does not make sense if the reader has not already read article n (or has not read it very recently). In email you can assume that the reader has done that. On usenet you cannot. > The more important thing > should not appear in the end of the message, but at the top. I agree. That's why the quoted stuff should be kept *short*. /\ / \ / \ / \ / \ /_ _\ | | | clue | | | | | |______| <megasnip of entire previous post> -- ##### c ^ OO /\\\\ ##### | /|\ `^^^^^^^%-- '||` | \\\\ ####-[.]\ / \ " " \ ha ha ha dd /[.]-\\\| ### _| |_ \\| ### (_ http://www.ludd.luth.se/~vk/cgi/asciichat/ _)} == \ / A S C I I A R T C H A T # ||\
Emil Nitrate wrote: > Veronica Karlsson wrote: > > > > Usenet is not email. Usenet is not a web site. Usenet is not a blog. > > Usenet is a free for all Usenet is a place where people try to communicate. Communication works best when people use the language the same way. Paragraphs are among the most important things in written language. The order in which they appear matters. -- ##### c ^ OO /\\\\ ##### | /|\ `^^^^^^^%-- '||` | \\\\ ####-[.]\ / \ " " \ ha ha ha dd /[.]-\\\| ### _| |_ \\| ### (_ http://www.ludd.luth.se/~vk/cgi/asciichat/ _)} == \ / A S C I I A R T C H A T # ||\
Mic Barendsz wrote: > Veronica Karlsson wrote: > > Mic Barendsz wrote: Hang on! You're Mic! Or mic! Or miK! (?) THE Mic! Welcome back! :-) > > > Yes, Please! > > > More mud-wrestling... > > > > Sorry about that. I just *had to*! > > Haven't been here for ages. And the UseNet in general, for that matter. > But Laura's complaint about 'stricktness' about Netiquette struck me. Is netiquette "strict"? This is no different than people complaining about mobile phones. There is a discussion. Some say it's rude to have one's phone on in a restaurant or on a bus, others say one should be allowed to have them everywhere. Eventually conventions emerge from the discussion. In the case of top-posting that has already happened, years ago. Some newbies want to re-open that discussion. > It's the same in the nl.* groups. Regulars complaining about the lack > of newcomers, and on the other hand scaring them of with rules and > rules and rules... Because people want to communicate with grown-ups who already know the rules, not screaming babies who refuse to even consider that the rules might actually make sense. -- ##### c ^ OO /\\\\ ##### | /|\ `^^^^^^^%-- '||` | \\\\ ####-[.]\ / \ " " \ ha ha ha dd /[.]-\\\| ### _| |_ \\| ### (_ http://www.ludd.luth.se/~vk/cgi/asciichat/ _)} == \ / A S C I I A R T C H A T # ||\
Mic Barendsz wrote: > Veronica Karlsson schreef: > > Mic Barendsz wrote: > > > Veronica Karlsson wrote: > > > > Mic Barendsz wrote: > > > > Hang on! You're Mic! Or mic! Or miK! (?) THE Mic! Welcome back! :-) > > Chill out! > The illustrious Ice Queen from Lulea shouldn't yell like that. I think you must mean somebody else! > More like... 'Yeah right, You're mic right? The miK that made > some talentless attempts at doodling and left...' You are just trying to get me to say that you are wonderful. Well, you are! :-) > > Is netiquette "strict"? > > Absolutely! I disagree. It's not more "strict" than other plain politeness things, like saying "please". You do it because it works, because then people listen to what you have to say instead of criticising how you say it. If you don't say "thank you" when convention says you should people get offended. Similarly, when you top-post people get offended. (Then the fact that you don't say "hi" and "bye" as much in discussion groups as in real life is also about netiquette. It's simply not polite to get "too polite" and personal in such discussions. BTW, did I mention that you are a wonderful ascii artist and it's very nice to see you back?) > > In the case of top-posting that has already happened, years > > ago. Some newbies want to re-open that discussion. > > Do you do not want to re-open that discussion again? > Different people... New input... Different outcome? More like a waste of time. Sure, in Sweden people now say "du" instead of "ni", even to strangers, but most of the time the old way really is better. In any case, it's a good idea to understand why a rule exists before questioning it. Most newbies who top post don't seem to have even thought about why they do it. > > Because people want to communicate with grown-ups who already know the > > rules, not screaming babies who refuse to even consider that the rules > > might actually make sense. > > There's a difference... ? > Babies should be treated differently than newbies. When I wrote "babies" I meant it as a synonym to "newbies". > The latter are grown-ups. They simply do not dig the way Netiquettically > Correct People teach them about rules and rules and so forth... They must be the same people who talk on their phones during films or lectures. Sure, it's cool to be able to talk to people anywhere, but it's annoying for those who try to keep up with the film or what the teacher is saying. > And --also-- these grown-up babies aren't accustomed to *plain and > hard*-UseNet manners. The logical way of communicating... Like, somebody actually telling them when they are being rude? -- ##### c ^ OO /\\\\ ##### | /|\ `^^^^^^^%-- '||` | \\\\ ####-[.]\ / \ " " \ ha ha ha dd /[.]-\\\| ### _| |_ \\| ### (_ http://www.ludd.luth.se/~vk/cgi/asciichat/ _)} == \ / A S C I I A R T C H A T # ||\
Veronica Karlsson wrote: > > If article n+1 is a response to article n then it often does not make > sense if the reader has not already read article n (or has not read it > very recently). In email you can assume that the reader has done that. > On usenet you cannot. That's why article n can be included (as a reference) in the end of the message. Of course, if you want to answer to a particular idea of the article, you should quote it before your answer, and I think nobody disagrees with that... But then it's not bottom-posting it would be middle-posting or center-posting (?). But if you want to answer the whole article, I say you should either not quote it at all, or quote it at the END so readers do not have to scroll down to read it. Now of course this may or may NOT be what netiquette says. But hey, some things have to evolve ;) And we must consider the new parameters (for example useragents become more and more 'intelligent', bandwidth is less and less a problem, ...) BoD > >> The more important thing >> should not appear in the end of the message, but at the top. > > I agree. That's why the quoted stuff should be kept *short*. > > /\ > / \ > / \ > / \ > / \ > /_ _\ > | | > | clue | > | | > | | > |______| > > > <megasnip of entire previous post>
Emil Nitrate <ani...@teatmsn.com> wrote in news:3ed...@pita.alt.net: > > Amen, brother. > > In message <3ed7edaa$0$4585$626...@news.free.fr> "BoD" > <Bo...@JRAF.org> wrote: >>Me I find it more logical to top post: in the article n+1 the "new" >>content is more important than the content from article n. The more >>important thing should not appear in the end of the message, but at >>the top. It's not natural to have to scroll to the end of the page to >>read it. >> >>BoD > Set newsreader to auto scroll to bottom? Accepted standard is to bottom post, give it up - the only important thing is consistency and standards. Resistance is futile. -- http://users.bigpond.net.au/abcgi "Life is mostly froth and bubble, Two things stand like stone, Kindness in another's trouble, And courage in your own." - ALG
Emil Nitrate <ani...@teatmsn.com> wrote in news:3edc5c6c.107651468 @pita.alt.net: > > Usenet is a free for all and not subject to the dictates of people who > demand conformism. > > In message <3ED...@hotbrev.com> Veronica Karlsson > <v...@hotbrev.com> wrote: > >>Usenet is not email. Usenet is not a web site. Usenet is not a blog. > You're already conforming by using correct spelling. And by using words that make sense. -- http://users.bigpond.net.au/abcgi "Life is mostly froth and bubble, Two things stand like stone, Kindness in another's trouble, And courage in your own." - ALG
If you mean me, thanks Veronica. I've always thought well of you too. But, in this case we'll have to agree to disagree. :) Laura On Sat, 31 May 2003 08:30:05 +0000, Veronica Karlsson <v...@hotbrev.com> wrote: > >Sorry about that. I just *had to*! I guess it's because it was an >otherwise sensible person who said something I didn't agree with. If it >had been some random newbie I probably wouldn't have cared. :-)
Laura T. wrote: > If you mean me, thanks Veronica. I've always thought well of you too. > But, in this case we'll have to agree to disagree. :) Just to illustrate my point I will NOT re-arrange the quoted material before writing this reply. You can disagree all you like, but if we carry on this sub-thread of the discussion any further it will get confusing. :-) > Veronica Karlsson wrote: > >Sorry about that. I just *had to*! I guess it's because it was an > >otherwise sensible person who said something I didn't agree with. If it > >had been some random newbie I probably wouldn't have cared. :-) -- ##### c ^ OO /\\\\ ##### | /|\ `^^^^^^^%-- '||` | \\\\ ####-[.]\ / \ " " \ ha ha ha dd /[.]-\\\| ### _| |_ \\| ### (_ http://www.ludd.luth.se/~vk/cgi/asciichat/ _)} == \ / A S C I I A R T C H A T # ||\
Mic Barendsz wrote: > Veronica Karlsson schreef: > > Mic Barendsz wrote: > >> Veronica Karlsson schreef: > >>> Mic Barendsz wrote: > >>> > >>> Is netiquette "strict"? > >> > >> Absolutely! > > > > I disagree. > > Uh oh, discussion... > ... and discussing with you was *never* such a good idea ;) No? Why? 0:-) > > It's not more "strict" than other plain politeness things, > > like saying "please". > > Good analogy. Don't get me wrong: I post the Netiquette-way myself. I know, or this discussion wouldn't make sense by now. :-D > And top-posting is confusing. Especially in longer discussions like > this one. But in some cases it can be more effective IMO. I have found *one* use for top-posting and quoting the entire previous post. For example, if I write to "the system administrator" that title could be represented by anybody out of a group of people who have as their job to read email to that adress. Then it makes sense to include old things at the bottom (because they can't be expected to keep track of what I was discussing with their colleague three days ago). > For instance > in this newsgroup I find bottom-posting more annoying when a large pic > is quoted, then one has to scroll down and at the bottom it just says > "Nice!". In that situation, why keep the large pic in there at all? (it's not just the before-after thing, it's the quote-everything thing as well! many people who top-post do both those things, because they don't see the end they forget it's there...) > That's what I meant with 'strict': sometimes acting against the rules > leads to more effective communication. Yes, sure, but that usually only works when the person understands why the rule is there in the first place and what the consequences of breaking it will be. > > It's simply not polite > > to get "too polite" and personal in such discussions. > > Hehe. Dunno about the newsgroups _you_ read. But in the nl-hierarchy > the same people that top-post start with 'Hello,' and finish their post > with 'Thanks in advance. Goodbye' if not 'Yours sincerely'. The logic is that if it's sent to a newsgroup it should be directed to the group, not to one person (OK, so you write "you" and mean the previous poster, but the "target audience" for the discussion as a whole should be anybody who cares to read it). Starting a message with "Hello Mic!" suggests that message is meant for one person only, i.e. it's a misplaced email message. Also, overdoing the politeness with the "hi" and "bye" stuff can be seen as a waste of the reader's time. > > Most > > newbies who top post don't seem to have even thought about why they do > > it. > > For two reasons probably: > 1. They haven't read about Netiquette or read the Charter, the FAQ; > 2. They post to Usenet as if they write an e-mail. Quoting myself from earlier in this discussion: Usenet is not email. > BTW Because the old way is sometimes better I pulled up the [TALK]-flag. Mmmm... and you don't have to be "stuck" to prefer the traditional way. Clue: classics become classics for a reason. > With 'babies' I meant the 'mobile kids' below. BTW What struck me also > is the 'aging' of the Usenetters. Not that many teens and early twens... How do you know? I think those groups were probably over-represented a few years ago (in 1996 I got the impression that everybody here, except Joan and Colin, were 20-25 years old). > > They must be the same people who talk on their phones during films or > > lectures. > > I'm not sure about that, because top-posters are in many cases the > same people that start their post with 'Hello, etc.'. > Moderate, polite people IRL probably. ...but Netiquette is not always intuitive (especially with some news readers!). Its rules exist for a reason but people need to learn them. For example, I could easily attach a 2MB BMP image to this post (just click "Attach..." and choose a file) but I don't, because I have learned that it is rude. If I want to show that picture to the group I should save it to a more compact format, put it on the web, and post the URL. http://www.ludd.luth.se/~vk/pics/temp/knives.jpg (just an example) "Intuitive" is not a synonym to "better". > But 50% get freaked out when > someone tells them to quit top-posting. And the flaming starts... > At least this is what struck me when I came back to Usenet. And now > in alt.ascii-art (home?) the same discussion... Mmmm... and five years ago it was html posts... and in five years it will be something else... > >> And --also-- these grown-up babies aren't accustomed to *plain and > >> hard*-UseNet manners. The logical way of communicating... > > > > Like, somebody actually telling them when they are being rude? > > In a decisive, Beta-person manner. Yes. ? > eerrr... this post could use some snipping Why? You did respond to everything you quoted... -- ##### c ^ OO /\\\\ ##### | /|\ `^^^^^^^%-- '||` | \\\\ ####-[.]\ / \ " " \ ha ha ha dd /[.]-\\\| ### _| |_ \\| ### (_ http://www.ludd.luth.se/~vk/cgi/asciichat/ _)} == \ / A S C I I A R T C H A T # ||\
BoD wrote: > Veronica Karlsson wrote: > > If article n+1 is a response to article n then it often does not make > > sense if the reader has not already read article n (or has not read it > > very recently). In email you can assume that the reader has done that. > > On usenet you cannot. > > That's why article n can be included (as a reference) in the end of the > message. Why? It certainly won't remove the need to scroll (because you still have to scroll past it to get to the next message). If it's already available in the group then it's completely redundant. If it's not then a short quote should be enough to not lose the context. Most of the time there is no need to quote the entire thing. > Of course, if you want to answer to a particular idea of the article, you > should quote it before your answer, and I think nobody disagrees with > that... But then it's not bottom-posting it would be middle-posting or > center-posting (?). Of course. (Who said anything about "bottom-posting"?) > But if you want to answer the whole article, I say you should either not > quote it at all, or quote it at the END so readers do not have to scroll > down to read it. This is where I disagree with you. If your response "carries its own context" (i.e. can be understood on its own) then, sure, go ahead, remove the quote. If it doesn't, then cut out everything except that little bit of it that you are responding to. If you are responding to more than one point, please do the "middle-posting" (normal) style. > Now of course this may or may NOT be what netiquette says. But hey, some > things have to evolve ;) And we must consider the new parameters (for > example useragents become more and more 'intelligent', They do? > bandwidth is less and less a problem, ...) Computer bandwidth maybe, but not "human bandwidth". Our eyes and brains and fingers still work the same way they did thousands of years ago. Example: these days many (most?) computers can show text that's more than 80 characters wide, but such text is not comfortable for the human eye to read. It still makes sense to keep your text under 80 columns, not because of how computer screens looked 20 years ago but because of how the human eye works. Also, when you put more "capacity" into a computer (or a freezer, or a cupboard, or a drawer, ...) you tend to fill it up. Keeping messages (or web pages or images) lean still helps. -- ##### c ^ OO /\\\\ ##### | /|\ `^^^^^^^%-- '||` | \\\\ ####-[.]\ / \ " " \ ha ha ha dd /[.]-\\\| ### _| |_ \\| ### (_ http://www.ludd.luth.se/~vk/cgi/asciichat/ _)} == \ / A S C I I A R T C H A T # ||\
.hsilgnE ni ,thgir ot tfel morf gnitirw yb dnA ABCGi wrote: > Emil Nitrate wrote: > > Usenet is a free for all and not subject to the dictates of people who > > demand conformism. > > > > Veronica Karlsson wrote: > > > > >Usenet is not email. Usenet is not a web site. Usenet is not a blog. > > You're already conforming by using correct spelling. And by using words > that make sense. -- ##### c ^ OO /\\\\ ##### | /|\ `^^^^^^^%-- '||` | \\\\ ####-[.]\ / \ " " \ ha ha ha dd /[.]-\\\| ### _| |_ \\| ### (_ http://www.ludd.luth.se/~vk/cgi/asciichat/ _)} == \ / A S C I I A R T C H A T # ||\
Veronica Karlsson wrote: > BoD wrote: > > Veronica Karlsson wrote: > > > If article n+1 is a response to article n then it often does not > > > make sense if the reader has not already read article n (or has > > > not read it very recently). In email you can assume that the > > > reader has done that. On usenet you cannot. > > > > That's why article n can be included (as a reference) in the end of > > the message. > > Why? It certainly won't remove the need to scroll (because you still > have to scroll past it to get to the next message). I'm not sure I understand. When I want to read next message in thread I don't have to scroll anything. > If it's already > available in the group then it's completely redundant. I agree but some have said that you cannot assume that the previous message is actually here. It could be here on your local server but not on other servers. So it may be impossible to know if it's viewable, which may be a sufficient reason to include it. By the way the fact that it may be redundent is IMO not a problem: with the current "average" bandwidth, an article being 50 lines instead of 25 does not make a difference. > If it's not > then > a short quote should be enough to not lose the context. Most of the > time there is no need to quote the entire thing. But sometimes you want to answer the whole article! > > Of course, if you want to answer to a particular idea of the > > article, you should quote it before your answer, and I think nobody > > disagrees with that... But then it's not bottom-posting it would be > > middle-posting or center-posting (?). > > Of course. (Who said anything about "bottom-posting"?) ok :) > > But if you want to answer the whole article, I say you should > > either not quote it at all, or quote it at the END so readers do > > not have to scroll down to read it. > > This is where I disagree with you. If your response "carries its own > context" (i.e. can be understood on its own) then, sure, go ahead, > remove the quote. If it doesn't, then cut out everything except that > little bit of it that you are responding to. If you are responding to > more than one point, please do the "middle-posting" (normal) style. I'm lost. What do you recommend when I want to answer the whole article: 1. don't quote anything, 2. quote everything, at the end (top post) or 3. quote everything, at the beginning (bottom post) Me I answer 1 or 2 but not 3. Then again it's just my opinion ;) > > Now of course this may or may NOT be what netiquette says. But hey, > > some things have to evolve ;) And we must consider the new > > parameters (for example useragents become more and more > > 'intelligent', > > They do? I think some fundamental laws of the universe can explain this way of the evolution... :) But for instance I'm sure you can find a newsreader that will "hide" any quoted text if it is at the bottom of an article. I can imagine you can even configure some to reformat articles and to put bottom quoted text to the top of the article :) Me I use Outlook Express with OEQuoteFix, it has an option to hide sigs. > > bandwidth is less and less a problem, ...) > > Computer bandwidth maybe, but not "human bandwidth". Our eyes and > brains and fingers still work the same way they did thousands of > years ago. Not sure :) Humans do evolve! > Example: these days many (most?) computers can show text > that's more > than 80 characters wide, but such text is not comfortable for the > human eye to read. It still makes sense to keep your text under 80 > columns, > not because of how computer screens looked 20 years ago but because of > how the human eye works. Agreed. > Also, when you put more "capacity" into a computer (or a freezer, or a > cupboard, or a drawer, ...) you tend to fill it up. Keeping messages > (or web pages or images) lean still helps. True :) BoD
Mic Barendsz wrote: > > ?tfel ot thgir ngitirw nehw tsop pot ot sediced ylneddus uoy > ekil nosrep elbisnes esiwrehto na yhw nosaer doog eno em evig uoy naC Bara f�r att visa varf�r det inte funkar (det tar inte s� m�nga "steg" f�rr�n man har virrat till det totalt). > > .hsilgnE ni ,thgir ot tfel morf gnitirw yb dnA > > :etorw nosslraK acinoreV > > > ABCGi wrote: > >> Emil Nitrate wrote: > >>> Usenet is a free for all and not subject to the dictates of people who > >>> demand conformism. > >>> > >>> Veronica Karlsson wrote: > >>> > >>>> Usenet is not email. Usenet is not a web site. Usenet is not a blog. > >> > >> You're already conforming by using correct spelling. And by using words > >> that make sense. -- ##### c ^ OO /\\\\ ##### | /|\ `^^^^^^^%-- '||` | \\\\ ####-[.]\ / \ " " \ ha ha ha dd /[.]-\\\| ### _| |_ \\| ### (_ http://www.ludd.luth.se/~vk/cgi/asciichat/ _)} == \ / A S C I I A R T C H A T # ||\
BoD wrote: > Veronica Karlsson wrote: > > BoD wrote: > > > <snip> > > Why? It certainly won't remove the need to scroll (because you still > > have to scroll past it to get to the next message). > > I'm not sure I understand. > When I want to read next message in thread I don't have to scroll > anything. In the news readers I'm familiar with you get the next message by "scrolling past the end" of the current message. > I agree but some have said that you cannot assume that the previous > message is actually here. That's right, you can't, which is why you should quote some text (but not all of it). > By the way the fact that it may be redundent is IMO not a problem: > with the current "average" bandwidth, an article being 50 lines > instead of 25 does not make a difference. It makes a difference in the "bandwidth" experienced by the human eye which has to sweep past those extra 25 lines. > > If it's not then > > a short quote should be enough to not lose the context. Most of the > > time there is no need to quote the entire thing. > > But sometimes you want to answer the whole article! I think we must be talking past each other somehow. Please, show some examples of "answering the whole article" (i.e. links to posts at Google or some similar service). > > If your response "carries its own > > context" (i.e. can be understood on its own) then, sure, go ahead, > > remove the quote. If it doesn't, then cut out everything except that > > little bit of it that you are responding to. If you are responding to > > more than one point, please do the "middle-posting" (normal) style. > > I'm lost. What do you recommend when I want to answer the whole article: > 1. don't quote anything, If your reply is a "complete article" of its own, which doesn't need anything from the previous one to make sense, sure. > 2. quote everything, at the end (top post) This is the one I don't like. It's confusing. > or 3. quote everything, at the beginning (bottom post) I don't like this one either. > Me I answer 1 or 2 but not 3. Then again it's just my opinion ;) Me I answer 4: quote relevant bits, not whole posts. > > >for example useragents become more and more 'intelligent', > > > > They do? > > I think some fundamental laws of the universe can explain this > way of the evolution... :) Who says such "evolution" has to be in the direction of "more intelligent"? All it says is that things change as time passes. > But for instance I'm sure you can find a newsreader that will "hide" > any quoted text if it is at the bottom of an article. > I can imagine you can even configure some to reformat articles and > to put bottom quoted text to the top of the article :) And that would be "intelligent"? **brrr** (that sort of features tend to make a mess of ascii art) > Me I use Outlook Express with OEQuoteFix, it has an option to hide > sigs. THAT can be intelligent (IF the sender has a correctly formed sig separator and if you are not interested in seeing sigs, sig collectors like me might not be as interested...) > > > bandwidth is less and less a problem, ...) > > > > Computer bandwidth maybe, but not "human bandwidth". Our eyes and > > brains and fingers still work the same way they did thousands of > > years ago. > > Not sure :) Humans do evolve! Yes, but not very quickly. A few thousand years don't make that much difference. -- ##### c ^ OO /\\\\ ##### | /|\ `^^^^^^^%-- '||` | \\\\ ####-[.]\ / \ " " \ ha ha ha dd /[.]-\\\| ### _| |_ \\| ### (_ http://www.ludd.luth.se/~vk/cgi/asciichat/ _)} == \ / A S C I I A R T C H A T # ||\
In message <3ED...@hotbrev.com> Veronica Karlsson <v...@hotbrev.com> wrote: >That's right, you can't, which is why you should quote some text (but >not all of it). Perhaps it might be helpful to quote the draft of an RFD that deals with this subject. I think you'll find it interesting: Reply Posting Guidelines in One to Many Communications Status of this Memo This document is an Internet-Draft and is in full conformance with all provisions of Section 10 of RFC2026. Internet-Drafts are working documents of the Internet Engineering Task Force (IETF), its areas, and its working groups. Note that other groups may also distribute working documents as Internet- Drafts. Internet-Drafts are draft documents valid for a maximum of six months and may be updated, replaced, or obsoleted by other documents at any time. It is inappropriate to use Internet-Drafts as reference material or to cite them other than as "work in progress." The list of current Internet-Drafts can be accessed at http://www.ietf.org/ietf/1id-abstracts.txt The list of Internet-Draft Shadow Directories can be accessed at http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html. 1. Abstract This document describes the proper methods to use when replying to messages in a One to Many communication environment such as USENET, mailing lists, or bulletin boards. It is recommended that top-posting in a summary reply be used primarily, or if desired and appropriate that inline-posting or conversational-posting be used in a point-by-point reply. 2. Introduction This proposal is an attempt to provide a definitive standard for posting guidelines in internet communications. Specifically, this document will settle one aspect of particular contention in internet communications. This area is the format of replies to internet postings, and whether the text of those replies should go to the top, bottom, or middle of the message. Specifically this proposal states that conversational replies (those the respond to messages on a point-by-point basis) should contain response text in the middle of the message. Secondly, responses which are not conversational, should post the response text at the top of the message. This message supersedes the relevant guidelines in RFC 1855. 3. Conventions used in this document Top-posting is the practice of replying to a message with the reply text at the top of the message, with the original message quoted beneath. Bottom-posting is the practice of replying to a message with the reply text at the bottom of the message, with the original message quoted above. Middle-posting or inline-posting is the practice of placing reply text inside the quoted message following specific points in which the response deals with. This is also called, for the purposes of this document, Conversational-posting. A "point-by-point reply" is a reply which responds to specific sentences, paragraphs, or points in the original message. A "summary" reply is a reply that responds to a message as a whole. The key words "MUST", "MUST NOT", "REQUIRED", "SHALL", "SHALL NOT", "SHOULD", "SHOULD NOT", "RECOMMENDED", "MAY", and "OPTIONAL" in this document are to be interpreted as described in RFC-2119 [ ]. 4. Guidelines for Point-by-Point Replies vs. Summary Replies. In replies that specifically respond to individual sentences, paragraphs, or points to the original message at least (3) three times, Point-by-Point replies may be used. All other forms of replies shall be in the format of summary replies. The purpose of the Summary reply is to give proper emphasis on the reply. The reply is the focal point of the message, and as such, that's what the readers are reading the message for, the reply. Context is important, but as in written communication, it is secondary in nature. In written communication, footnotes are used, or appendices. While electronic communication is not as formal, leaving a trimmed copy of the original message for reference is appropriate and should be done where relevant. A combination of Point-by-Point and Summary shall never be used. In a nutshell, the purpose of a reply is the reply, not to provide a transcript of an entire conversation. A trimmed quotes original message is always recommended to include with a reply as a reference as relevant. 5. Guidelines for Point-by-Point Replies In a point-by-point reply, response text is placed in the middle of the message. An examples would be as follows: > A blue ball should be the preferred ball in all schoolyard > activities. Well, I disagree, the red ball is the obvious choice. > This is to make the ball visible... As in the above example, there should be (1) one blank line separating the response text with the quoted text. The response text should immediately follow the specific point that is being responded to in the quoted message. If necessary, quoted paragraphs should be broken to accommodate this. If relevant, a short summary of the response can be placed at the bottom of the message and should not exceed (1) one paragraph per (10) ten paragraphs quotes. However, it should be noted that if you are replying to a message that is longer than (2) two or (3) three typed pages, you may choose to not quote the message at all, or include it only as an attachment. 6. Guidelines for Summary Replies Summary replies are the preferred method to replying to electronic communication. It gives the most flexibility to replies as well as gives the best emphasis to the reply. In a reply, the response is the primary focus of the message, not the original message. An example of a summary reply is as follows: I like what you have to say, though I think a red ball should be used instead of a blue ball. "Original Message from Somebody <som...@somebox.com>:" > A blue ball should be the preferred ball in all schoolyard > activities. This is to make the ball visible... As in the above example, the response is contained above the "Original Message" line (though the actual text of this line varies between mail/newsreaders. There should be (1) one blank line between the last line of the response and the "Original Message" line. The original message should still be trimmed to the necessary and relevant pieces the response is responding to. Frequently, response are only a few sentences for length messages, therefore Summary replies provide the best method of putting the emphasis on the reply, and not on the original message. This is true for even lengthy replies, where generally, people reply to a message as a whole and reference specific pieces of the original message. 8. Quoting and Trimming Considerations In replies that do quote original messages, the poster should take particular care to use the following conventions to clarify what is quoted text, and whom is being quoted. All messages should include a line that indicates the source of the quote. Most newsreaders do this automatically by using the content of the "From:" line in the headers. The particular word choice is the decision of the replier, but should be of the form of: "In <newsgroup> John Q. Smith <smi...@somebox.com> wrote:" A replier may choose to include the date of the post, and may or may not include the e-mail address of the originator. The necessary content is the name (as indicated in the "From:" line in the headers) and, if applicable, the newsgroup the message was posted in. If a message was posted to multiple groups, including the newsgroup is not necessary. Furthermore, lines of quoted text should always begin with "> " so that it is clear what content is quoted and what is not. Quotes of quotes should follow the convention of "> > " though quoting quoted text should be, as a practice, discouraged unless necessary. It generally isn't advised to use footnotes inside footnotes, as such, it isn't advised to quote quoted text. Quoted messages should always be trimmed to the relevant content is being responded to. Repliers should consciously remove all but the relevant material that they are quoting. This can be accomplished by simply removing the text. No other conventions need be followed. It is, however, optional to indicate where the snipped text was removed by placing "SNIPPED" or "[SNIPPED]" where text has been removed using whatever form of "> " depending on the level of quoted text being used. If, for some reason, the quoted text is modified by the replier, those lines should be preceded with a "| " to indicate this. While this may be relevant in some threats, by and large this practice should be avoided as the quoted text "belongs" to the original poster, and they should be the only one to make modifications, unless the discussion specifically calls for "community" editing. 9. Entreaty on Reply Content It seems almost every topic of conversation of the internet that has even a marginal level of participation has many replies that don't add an substantial content to the discussion except to interject things like "Me too." or "You suck." While flamine may or may not be appropriate, replies that don't add any substantial content should be avoided. The purpose of replying to a message is to respond. If the reply is only a few words, and doesn't have any content of note, the message should not be sent as it only serves to tie up resources for no real benefit to the discussion. If one is going to take the time to reply, one should at least have the courtesy to actually respond to the message. 10. Security Considerations This draft does not have any security considerations as it deals strictly with message and reply formats in electronic communications. 11. References [RFC-1855], Hambridge, S., "Netiquette Guidelines", RFC 1855, October 1995. 12. Author's Addresses John Bambenek Pentex Net, Inc. 1535 W. Schuamburg Rd #204 Phone: 1-312-285-6009 Schaumburg, IL. USA Email: jba...@pentex-net.com
_.--- Emil Nitrate spoke in alt.ascii-art --------._ > Perhaps it might be helpful to quote the draft of an RFD that deals > with this subject. I think you'll find it interesting: > > > Reply Posting Guidelines in One to Many Communications Did you have to post the whole RFC? Couldn't you have, just maybe, linked to it? <url:http://www.karlsruhe.org/rfc/draft-bambenek-posting-guidelines-02.txt> '---...____ Faux_Pseudo ________________...---~~~ -- ICQ=66618055 : http://asciipr0n.com/fp UPDATED=05/06 YIM=faux_pseudo : Rev: _-_The_Radio_One_Sessions_-_06_-_In_the_city.mp3 Brevity is the : Now: i/garbage/2.0/Garbage_-_I_Think_I'm_Paranoid.mp3 sole of wit : Fwd: nment/Anti-Flag_-_12_-_fuck_police_brutality.mp3
I actually didn't post the "whole" draft. ;-) In message <VoQCa.33679$Pc5.10517@fed1read01> Faux_Pseudo <Fau...@yahoo.comERCIAL> wrote: >Did you have to post the whole RFC? Couldn't you have, just maybe, >linked to it? ><url:http://www.karlsruhe.org/rfc/draft-bambenek-posting-guidelines-02.txt>
Veronica Karlsson wrote: > > In the news readers I'm familiar with you get the next message by > "scrolling past the end" of the current message. With the one I'm familiar with you just have to click a button. > > I think we must be talking past each other somehow. Please, show some > examples of "answering the whole article" (i.e. links to posts at > Google or some similar service). Well as a good example there are pictures in this group that I just want to reply to say I like them and congratulate the author. Should I cut the picture to quote the "parts" I like about it? What if I like the picture as a whole? I now think that I won't quote it at all... But then if the picture is not on the reader's server for some reason my article is meaningless. > > Who says such "evolution" has to be in the direction of "more > intelligent"? All it says is that things change as time passes. Ok I'm not a specialist, but I think things tend to be more and more "structured", and "organized", not the other way. If not, we would not be here to talk about it. > > But for instance I'm sure you can find a newsreader that will "hide" > > any quoted text if it is at the bottom of an article. > > I can imagine you can even configure some to reformat articles and > > to put bottom quoted text to the top of the article :) > > And that would be "intelligent"? **brrr** (that sort of features tend > to make a mess of ascii art) Well an "intelligent" enough newsreader could optimize the reading of the articles, for example by coloring quotings depths, or removing unimportant parts, thus improving the "human eye bandwidth" you were referring to. > > > Me I use Outlook Express with OEQuoteFix, it has an option to hide > > sigs. > > THAT can be intelligent (IF the sender has a correctly formed sig > separator and if you are not interested in seeing sigs, sig collectors > like me might not be as interested...) Of course such features need to be easily desactivable :) > > > > bandwidth is less and less a problem, ...) > > > > > > Computer bandwidth maybe, but not "human bandwidth". Our eyes and > > > brains and fingers still work the same way they did thousands of > > > years ago. > > > > Not sure :) Humans do evolve! > > Yes, but not very quickly. A few thousand years don't make that much > difference. Except it may also be a question of culture, and culture evolves a lot in a thousand years. BoD
I e j o y t o p | s i d e p o s t i n g . In message <3ED...@hotbrev.com> Veronica Karlsson <v...@hotbrev.com> wrote: >.hsilgnE ni ,thgir ot tfel morf gnitirw yb dnA > >ABCGi wrote: >> Emil Nitrate wrote: >> > Usenet is a free for all and not subject to the dictates of people who >> > demand conformism. >> > >> > Veronica Karlsson wrote: >> > >> > >Usenet is not email. Usenet is not a web site. Usenet is not a blog. >> >> You're already conforming by using correct spelling. And by using words >> that make sense.
_.--- Mic Barendsz spoke in alt.ascii-art --------._ > > eht retfA > eht doolf > detpmetta elpoep > dliub ot > ,ytic a Are you just trying to fuck with my dyslexia? Not stop top posting: From yours truely: http://asciipr0n.com/fp/linux/top-posting.txt '---...____ Faux_Pseudo ________________...---~~~ -- .-')) http://asciipr0n.com/fp ('-. | I respect a man who knows how ' ..- .:" ) Updated ( ":. -.. ' | to spell a word more than one ((,,_;'.;' 05 / 06 ';. ';_,,)) | way. ((_.;'*Faux_Pseudo*':._)) | -- Mark Twain
Faux_Pseudo wrote: > _.--- Mic Barendsz spoke in alt.ascii-art --------._ > > > > eht retfA > > eht doolf > > detpmetta elpoep > > dliub ot > > ,ytic a > > Are you just trying to fuck with my dyslexia? Nejd�, han j�vlas med alla, inte bara dig. > http://asciipr0n.com/fp/linux/top-posting.txt > Because we all know that if you are going to piss someone off you > should do it deliberately. See above. > 2) Because its not about you. > You may know what you are responding but 50,000 other people have > no idea. Sometimes you just have to look beyond yourself. I like this one. -- ##### c ^ OO /\\\\ ##### | /|\ `^^^^^^^%-- '||` | \\\\ ####-[.]\ / \ " " \ ha ha ha dd /[.]-\\\| ### _| |_ \\| ### (_ http://www.ludd.luth.se/~vk/cgi/asciichat/ _)} == \ / A S C I I A R T C H A T # ||\
Tim Weaver wrote: > > PS: Grrrrrrrr....... It's summer. People have better things to do. :) -- ##### c ^ OO /\\\\ ##### | /|\ `^^^^^^^%-- '||` | \\\\ ####-[.]\ / \ " " \ ha ha ha dd /[.]-\\\| ### _| |_ \\| ### (_ http://www.ludd.luth.se/~vk/cgi/asciichat/ _)} == \ / A S C I I A R T C H A T # ||\
Emil Nitrate wrote: > > I Y > o .gnikool > e u y > j ' l > o r l > y e i > just trying to trick me s > t creative and > o i > p n g > | t n > s o i > i h > d d t > e o e > i m > p n o > o g s > s > t > i > n > g > . > > Veronica Karlsson wrote: > > > .hsilgnE ni ,thgir ot tfel morf gnitirw yb dnA > > > > ABCGi wrote: > > > Emil Nitrate wrote: > > > > Usenet is a free for all and not subject to the dictates of people who > > > > demand conformism. > > > > > > > > Veronica Karlsson wrote: > > > > > > > > >Usenet is not email. Usenet is not a web site. Usenet is not a blog. > > > > > > You're already conforming by using correct spelling. And by using words > > > that make sense. -- ##### c ^ OO /\\\\ ##### | /|\ `^^^^^^^%-- '||` | \\\\ ####-[.]\ / \ " " \ ha ha ha dd /[.]-\\\| ### _| |_ \\| ### (_ http://www.ludd.luth.se/~vk/cgi/asciichat/ _)} == \ / A S C I I A R T C H A T # ||\
BoD wrote: > Veronica Karlsson wrote: > > > > In the news readers I'm familiar with you get the next message by > > "scrolling past the end" of the current message. > > With the one I'm familiar with you just have to click a button. Sure, I can do that too, but then I would either have to use the mouse all the time or switch between mouse and keyboard all the time. This way I can just keep tapping the space bar (very convenient in long discussions where I don't feel like contributing, i.e. most of the time). > > I think we must be talking past each other somehow. Please, show some > > examples of "answering the whole article" > > Well as a good example there are pictures in this group I was talking about text, not pictures. This particular newsgroup is a special case. For example, this is one of the few groups (the only group?) inhabited by Old People where sigs can be more than four lines without getting flamed. If you should quote the whole picture? Well, you'll just have to do what feels right for that particular picture. Quite often cutting it off (just to keep context) works for pictures too: http://groups.google.com/groups?threadm=3525EC85.446B9B3D%40on.spammer (actually, the example above is an example of cutting out part of a picture (my own sig, quoted two steps) and cutting out a whole picture (Shimrod's sig, not-at-all quoted one step)) http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=slrn9vrh7r.97.tjporter%40gronk.porter.net (here it's not necessary to see the whole picture to recognize it) Sometimes the size is not a problem: http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=35587E9D.446B9B3D%40on.spammer&output=gplain But sometimes a big picture really *deserves* to be re-posted: http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=3574398B.2781E494%40on.spammer&output=gplain > > Who says such "evolution" has to be in the direction of "more > > intelligent"? All it says is that things change as time passes. > > Ok I'm not a specialist, but I think things tend to be more > and more "structured", and "organized", not the other way. If not, we > would not be here to talk about it. I've seen people complaining about how there seems to be a tendency to make things simpler to make them more convenient to use for more people. The people who complain are "experts", those who have learned to use sophisticated things years ago and suddenly everything new is "dumbed down". Suddenly it's not possible, or they're not "allowed", to do some things. Sometimes "more structured and organized" can mean less freedom for those who know what they're doing. "Change" is not a synonym to "improvement". > > > But for instance I'm sure you can find a newsreader that will "hide"<snip> > > > > And that would be "intelligent"? **brrr** > > Well an "intelligent" enough newsreader could optimize the reading > of the articles, for example by coloring quotings depths, or removing > unimportant parts, thus improving the "human eye bandwidth" you were > referring to. How does a computer recognize what parts are "unimportant"? I remember drawing a lynx once. I used a photo and the "plastic bag" method. I noticed how my human eye had no problem seeing the eye, but from a computer's point of view the eye was just one more black spot. The animal in the photo had black spots all over it and I noticed this because I was taking little "steps" all around the picture and trying to fill each "box" with an appropriate character that would make the picture as a whole look like a big cat. The computer, however, only "sees" pixels. http://www.ludd.luth.se/~vk/pics/ascii/CHRISTMAS99.HTML#D26 > > > an option to hide sigs. > > > > THAT can be intelligent > > Of course such features need to be easily desactivable :) Smileys in Word... *grrrrrr* > > > > Our eyes and brains and fingers still work the same way > > > > they did thousands of years ago. > > > > > > Not sure :) Humans do evolve! > > > > Yes, but not very quickly. > > Except it may also be a question of culture, and culture evolves a > lot in a thousand years. Culture doesn't make you read faster. Culture doesn't give you longer fingers, or more fingers. Culture doesn't give you a bigger capacity to take in information. -- ##### c ^ OO /\\\\ ##### | /|\ `^^^^^^^%-- '||` | \\\\ ####-[.]\ / \ " " \ ha ha ha dd /[.]-\\\| ### _| |_ \\| ### (_ http://www.ludd.luth.se/~vk/cgi/asciichat/ _)} == \ / A S C I I A R T C H A T # ||\
Emil Nitrate <ani...@teatmsn.com> wrote in news:3ef...@pita.alt.net: Does the universe fall apart if I TMB post? > I actually didn't post the "whole" draft. ;-) > > In message <VoQCa.33679$Pc5.10517@fed1read01> Faux_Pseudo > <Fau...@yahoo.comERCIAL> wrote: .comMERCIAL - I don't think this stops the SPAM harvesters. >>Did you have to post the whole RFC? Couldn't you have, just maybe, >>linked to it? >><url:http://www.karlsruhe.org/rfc/draft-bambenek-posting-guidelines-02. >>txt> Well please do. And one that has been spell checked. -- http://users.bigpond.net.au/abcgi "Life is mostly froth and bubble, Two things stand like stone, Kindness in another's trouble, And courage in your own." - ALG
Veronica Karlsson <v...@hotbrev.com> wrote in news:3EDC62E0.6A921405 @hotbrev.com: >> >> I Y >> o .gnikool >> e u y >> j ' l >> o r l >> y e i >> just trying to trick me s >> t creative and >> o i >> p n g >> | t n >> s o i >> i h >> d d t >> e o e >> i m >> p n o >> o g s >> s >> t >> i >> n >> g >> . >> > That is cool, I wonder if it counts as a middle post. -- http://users.bigpond.net.au/abcgi "Life is mostly froth and bubble, Two things stand like stone, Kindness in another's trouble, And courage in your own." - ALG
t ABCGi wrote: s > o > Veronica Karlsson <v...@hotbrev.com> wrote in news:3EDC62E0.6A921405 p > @hotbrev.com: > t > >> h > >> I Y g > >> o .gnikool i > >> e u y r > >> j ' l > >> o r l a > >> y e i > >> just trying to trick me s y > >> t creative and l > >> o i s > >> p n g u > >> | t n o > >> s o i i > >> i h v > >> d d t b > >> e o e o > >> i m > >> p n o s > >> o g s a > >> s w > >> t > >> i t > >> n a > >> g h > >> . t > >> > > o > N > That is cool, I wonder if it counts as a middle post. -- ##### c ^ OO /\\\\ ##### | /|\ `^^^^^^^%-- '||` | \\\\ ####-[.]\ / \ " " \ ha ha ha dd /[.]-\\\| ### _| |_ \\| ### (_ http://www.ludd.luth.se/~vk/cgi/asciichat/ _)} == \ / A S C I I A R T C H A T # ||\
Veronica Karlsson <v...@hotbrev.com> wrote in news:3ED...@hotbrev.com: > t ABCGi wrote: > s > > o > Veronica Karlsson <v...@hotbrev.com> wrote in news:3EDC62E0.6A921405 > p > @hotbrev.com: > > > t > >> > h > >> I Y > g > >> o .gnikool > i > >> e u y > r > >> j ' l > > >> o r l > a > >> y e i > > >> just trying to trick me s > y > >> t creative and > l > >> o i > s > >> p n g > u > >> | t n > o > >> s o i > i > >> i h > v > >> d d t > b > >> e o e > o > >> i m > > >> p n o > s > >> o g s > a > >> s > w > >> t > > >> i > t > >> n > a > >> g > h > >> . > t > >> > > > > o > > N > That is cool, I wonder if it counts as a middle post. > > Please don't left post! :) -- http://users.bigpond.net.au/abcgi "Life is mostly froth and bubble, Two things stand like stone, Kindness in another's trouble, And courage in your own." - ALG
Mic Barendsz <mi...@dataweb.nl> wrote in news:BB0...@dataweb.nl:
> http://asciipr0n.com/fp/linux/top-posting.txt
Grammar Checked;
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
top-posters will inherit the earth
-- robert w hall In: alt.os.linux.slackware
Eventually it happens to all of us. You are reading the replies to
your messages on a mailing list or in a newsgroup and you see those
dreadful words: "Don't top post"
If you are lucky they included a link to this text so you could answer
that question in the back of your brain "what the heck do they mean by
this?". Well I am glad you asked.
Up until today your replies have looked something like this:
From: Me
Re: World Domination
Me too!
I hate that stuff.
You said:
> I don't like tofu.
> But I love cheese
Now this is how it should have looked:
From: Me
Re: World Domination
You said:
> I don't like tofu.
Me too!
> But I love cheese
I hate that stuff.
No you are asking yourself: Self, why do they care? What difference
does it make?
Well for one thing the world can now tell what you are talking about
with a much better sense of context. There is no confusion as to what
you are saying and you are less likely to piss people off accidently.
Because we all know that if you are going to piss someone off you
should do it deliberately.
Here are some of the popular reasons for making sure you don't
top post.
1) It is a standard.
While that may sound like the stupidest reason in the world to you
right now you will have to accept that standards do count for
something and that if you don't give credit to those standards then
people who do won't give credit to you.
2) A: Because it upsets the natural flow of reading.
Q: Why is top posting so rude?
-- Springfield In: alt.os.linux.slackware
You and the person you are replying to may know what you are
talking about but some Joe who has just joined the conversation may
not. And without proper inline posting he won't know from the
context of the conversation what it is you are agreeing to.
3) It is often noted that because of the way the Usenet propagates
that a reply might arrive before the original. Which makes it nigh
impossible to figure out what is going on without a cleanly marked
form of quoting and replying.
There are many other reasons but those are really the only ones that
you need to know. Everything else is just a waste of time compared to
those three.
Now you may state something foolish like:
"Why should I have to skip past things that have already been written
to see the new text?"
Well that is simply answered in two parts.
1) You don't have to.
If you are using an intelligently designed application to read
these posts then there is a feature or a key explained in the help
feature that explains how you can toggle off or on the quoted
material. No more excuses.
2) Because its not about you.
You may know what you are responding to but 50,000 other people have
no idea. Sometimes you just have to look beyond yourself.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
--
http://users.bigpond.net.au/abcgi
"Life is mostly froth and bubble, Two things stand like stone,
Kindness in another's trouble, And courage in your own." - ALG
_.--- ABCGi spoke in alt.ascii-art --------._ >> <Fau...@yahoo.comERCIAL> wrote: > > .comMERCIAL - I don't think this stops the SPAM harvesters. It has done rather good so far. >>>Did you have to post the whole RFC? Couldn't you have, just maybe, >>>linked to it? >>><url:http://www.karlsruhe.org/rfc/draft-bambenek-posting-guidelines-02.txt> > > Well please do. And one that has been spell checked. It worked fine for me just now. make sure that the .txt is on the end as your news reader seems to have droped it to a second line. '---...____ Faux_Pseudo ________________...---~~~ -- Free Trial Membership. If you would like to join the Official Cadre of Piller then send him an email Faux_Pseudo at Yahoo com for consideration and terms of membership. There is no Secret Cabal. Love The Management
_.--- Veronica Karlsson spoke in alt.ascii-art --------._ >> Because we all know that if you are going to piss someone off you >> should do it deliberately. \ > Nejd�, han j�vlas med alla,\inte bara dig. \ \ \ \ ._-_. Don't make me pimp slap you \ \ /_ \\\\ / second time. \ .'. \\\ \ /|||||\ /_ )|\ /|||||||\ |_ |// || + + || \_ //\\ || ^ || .-'==='-./ ||\ o /|| / \ |||)---(||| /_/|:F_P:|\_\ /|| ||\ \ \| || / / || VK || \ >> 2) Because its not about you. >> You may know what you are responding but 50,000 other people have >> no idea. Sometimes you just have to look beyond yourself. > > I like this one. I do what I can. '---...____ Faux_Pseudo ________________...---~~~ -- Free Trial Membership. If you would like to join the Official Cadre of Piller then send him an email Faux_Pseudo at Yahoo com for consideration and terms of membership. There is no Secret Cabal. Love The Management
_.--- ABCGi spoke in alt.ascii-art --------._ > Mic Barendsz <mi...@dataweb.nl> wrote in news:BB0...@dataweb.nl: > >> http://asciipr0n.com/fp/linux/top-posting.txt > > Grammar Checked; <snip> Thanks. I just updated the site with your gramer checked version. If you check the bottem of it you will see credit has been given. '---...____ Faux_Pseudo ________________...---~~~ -- ICQ=66618055 : http://asciipr0n.com/fp UPDATED=05/06 YIM=faux_pseudo : Rev: /sonic_youth/sister/Master-Dik.mp3 I am the lie that: Now: sonic_youth/daydream_nation/06_-_Total_Trash.mp3 you belive : Fwd: n_manson/smells_like_children/13-white_trash.mp3
I failed miserably to keep a straight face when I read that
on Fri, 30 May 2003 17:47:57 +0000, Veronica Karlsson wrote:
> This is an IPOS:
What's an IPOS? Can't find it at <www.acronymfinder.com>.
L�on (aka Oliphaunt)
--
I really didn't foresee the Internet. But then, neither did
the computer industry. Not that that tells us very much, of
course - the computer industry didn't even foresee that the
century was going to end. -- Douglas Adams (1952 - 2001)
Leon Planken wrote: > Veronica Karlsson wrote: > > This is an IPOS: > > What's an IPOS? Can't find it at <www.acronymfinder.com>. llizard is the name of one of the regular posters to this group. This is llizard's homepage: http://llizard.crosswinds.net/ On there you can find llizard's self portrait: http://llizard.crosswinds.net/ascii-art/llizards.htm Some people don't see a llizard in there, just an Incomprehensible Pile Of Sticks. BTW, llizard loves when people come into her forum to discuss food: http://on.starblvd.net/meet/llizard/ -- ##### c ^ OO /\\\\ ##### | /|\ `^^^^^^^%-- '||` | \\\\ ####-[.]\ / \ " " \ ha ha ha dd /[.]-\\\| ### _| |_ \\| ### (_ http://www.ludd.luth.se/~vk/cgi/asciichat/ _)} == \ / A S C I I A R T C H A T # ||\
Faux_Pseudo <Fau...@yahoo.comERCIAL> wrote in news:XyfDa.35894$Pc5.5496@fed1read01: > _.--- ABCGi spoke in alt.ascii-art --------._ >> Mic Barendsz <mi...@dataweb.nl> wrote in >> news:BB0...@dataweb.nl: >> >>> http://asciipr0n.com/fp/linux/top-posting.txt >> >> Grammar Checked; > <snip> > > Thanks. I just updated the site with your gramer checked version. If > you check the bottem of it you will see credit has been given. :) Your welcome, captain ABCGi out. -- http://users.bigpond.net.au/abcgi "Life is mostly froth and bubble, Two things stand like stone, Kindness in another's trouble, And courage in your own." - ALG
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