Re: ASCII Stuff

In message <3ED...@hotbrev.com>  Veronica Karlsson
<v...@hotbrev.com> wrote:

>That's right, you can't, which is why you should quote some text (but
>not all of it).

Perhaps it might be helpful to quote the draft of an RFD that deals
with this subject.  I think you'll find it interesting:


     Reply Posting Guidelines in One to Many Communications


Status of this Memo

   This document is an Internet-Draft and is in full conformance
   with all provisions of Section 10 of RFC2026.

   Internet-Drafts are working documents of the Internet Engineering 
   Task Force (IETF), its areas, and its working groups. Note that 
   other groups may also distribute working documents as Internet- 
   Drafts. 

   Internet-Drafts are draft documents valid for a maximum of six 
   months and may be updated, replaced, or obsoleted by other
   documents at any time. It is inappropriate to use Internet-Drafts
   as reference material or to cite them other than as "work in 
   progress." 

   The list of current Internet-Drafts can be accessed at 
   http://www.ietf.org/ietf/1id-abstracts.txt 

   The list of Internet-Draft Shadow Directories can be accessed at 
   http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html. 

1. Abstract

   This document describes the proper methods to use when replying to 
   messages in a One to Many communication environment such as
   USENET, mailing lists, or bulletin boards.  It is recommended that 
   top-posting in a summary reply be used primarily, or if desired
   and appropriate that inline-posting or conversational-posting be 
   used in a point-by-point reply. 

2. Introduction

   This proposal is an attempt to provide a definitive standard for 
   posting guidelines in internet communications.  Specifically, this 
   document will settle one aspect of particular contention in 
   internet communications.  This area is the format of replies to 
   internet postings, and whether the text of those replies should go 
   to the top, bottom, or middle of the message.  Specifically this 
   proposal states that conversational replies (those the respond to 
   messages on a point-by-point basis) should contain response text
   in the middle of the message.  Secondly, responses which are not 
   conversational, should post the response text at the top of the 
   message.  This message supersedes the relevant guidelines in RFC 
   1855.
 
3. Conventions used in this document

   Top-posting is the practice of replying to a message with the
   reply text at the top of the message, with the original message 
   quoted beneath.

   Bottom-posting is the practice of replying to a message with the 
   reply text at the bottom of the message, with the original message 
   quoted above.

   Middle-posting or inline-posting is the practice of placing reply 
   text inside the quoted message following specific points in 
   which the response deals with.  This is also called, for the 
   purposes of this document, Conversational-posting.

   A "point-by-point reply" is a reply which responds to specific 
   sentences, paragraphs, or points in the original message.

   A "summary" reply is a reply that responds to a message as a
   whole.

   The key words "MUST", "MUST NOT", "REQUIRED", "SHALL", "SHALL
   NOT", "SHOULD", "SHOULD NOT", "RECOMMENDED",  "MAY", and 
   "OPTIONAL" in this document are to be interpreted as described 
   in RFC-2119 [ ].

4. Guidelines for Point-by-Point Replies vs. Summary Replies.

   In replies that specifically respond to individual sentences, 
   paragraphs, or points to the original message at least (3) three 
   times, Point-by-Point replies may be used.  All other forms of 
   replies shall be in the format of summary replies.

   The purpose of the Summary reply is to give proper emphasis on the 
   reply. The reply is the focal point of the message, and as such, 
   that's what the readers are reading the message for, the reply.  
   Context is important, but as in written communication, it is 
   secondary in nature.  In written communication, footnotes are
   used, or appendices.  While electronic communication is not as 
   formal, leaving a trimmed copy of the original message for
   reference is appropriate and should be done where relevant.  A 
   combination of Point-by-Point and Summary shall never be used.

   In a nutshell, the purpose of a reply is the reply, not to provide
   a transcript of an entire conversation.  A trimmed quotes original 
   message is always recommended to include with a reply as a
   reference as relevant.

5. Guidelines for Point-by-Point Replies

   In a point-by-point reply, response text is placed in the middle
   of the message.  An examples would be as follows:

     > A blue ball should be the preferred ball in all schoolyard 
     > activities.

     Well, I disagree, the red ball is the obvious choice.

     > This is to make the ball visible...

   As in the above example, there should be (1) one blank line 
   separating the response text with the quoted text.  The response 
   text should immediately follow the specific point that is being 
   responded to in the quoted message. If necessary, quoted
   paragraphs should be broken to accommodate this.  If relevant, a 
   short summary of the response can be placed at the bottom of the
   message and should not exceed (1) one paragraph per (10) ten
   paragraphs quotes. However, it should be noted that if you are
   replying to a message that is longer than (2) two or (3) three
   typed pages, you may choose to not quote the message at all, or
   include it only as an attachment.

6. Guidelines for Summary Replies

   Summary replies are the preferred method to replying to electronic 
   communication.  It gives the most flexibility to replies as well
   as gives the best emphasis to the reply.  In a reply, the response
   is the primary focus of the message, not the original message.

   An example of a summary reply is as follows:

     I like what you have to say, though I think a red ball should be 
     used instead of a blue ball.

     "Original Message from Somebody <som...@somebox.com>:"

     > A blue ball should be the preferred ball in all schoolyard 
     > activities.  This is to make the ball visible...

   As in the above example, the response is contained above the 
   "Original Message" line (though the actual text of this line
   varies between mail/newsreaders.  There should be (1) one blank  
   line between the last line of the response and the "Original 
   Message" line.  The original message should still be trimmed to the
   necessary and relevant pieces the response is responding to.

   Frequently, response are only a few sentences for length messages, 
   therefore Summary replies provide the best method of putting the 
   emphasis on the reply, and not on the original message.  This is 
   true for even lengthy replies, where generally, people reply to a 
   message as a whole and reference specific pieces of the original 
   message.

8. Quoting and Trimming Considerations

   In replies that do quote original messages, the poster should take
   particular care to use the following conventions to clarify what is
   quoted text, and whom is being quoted.

   All messages should include a line that indicates the source of the
   quote.  Most newsreaders do this automatically by using the content
   of the "From:" line in the headers.  The particular word choice is
   the decision of the replier, but should be of the form of:

   "In <newsgroup> John Q. Smith <smi...@somebox.com> wrote:"

   A replier may choose to include the date of the post, and may or 
   may not include the e-mail address of the originator.  The   
   necessary content is the name (as indicated in the "From:" line in 
   the headers) and, if applicable, the newsgroup the message was  
   posted in.  If a message was posted to multiple groups, including 
   the newsgroup is not necessary.

   Furthermore, lines of quoted text should always begin with "> " so
   that it is clear what content is quoted and what is not.  Quotes of
   quotes should follow the convention of "> > " though quoting quoted
   text should be, as a practice, discouraged unless necessary.  It
   generally isn't advised to use footnotes inside footnotes, as such,
   it isn't advised to quote quoted text.

   Quoted messages should always be trimmed to the relevant content
   is being responded to.  Repliers should consciously remove all but
   the relevant material that they are quoting.  This can be
   accomplished by simply removing the text.  No other conventions
   need be followed.  It is, however, optional to indicate where the
   snipped text was removed by placing "SNIPPED" or "[SNIPPED]"
   where text has been removed using whatever form of "> " depending
   on the level of quoted text being used.

   If, for some reason, the quoted text is modified by the replier,
   those lines should be preceded with a "| " to indicate this.
   While this may be relevant in some threats, by and large this
   practice should be avoided as the quoted text "belongs" to the
   original poster, and they should be the only one to make
   modifications, unless the discussion specifically calls for
   "community" editing.

9. Entreaty on Reply Content

   It seems almost every topic of conversation of the internet that
   has even a marginal level of participation has many replies that
   don't add an substantial content to the discussion except to
   interject things like "Me too." or "You suck."  While flamine may
   or may not be appropriate, replies that don't add any substantial
   content should be avoided.  The purpose of replying to a message
   is to respond.  If the reply is only a few words, and doesn't
   have any content of note, the message should not be sent as it
   only serves to tie up resources for no real benefit to the
   discussion.  If one is going to take the time to reply, one should
   at least have the courtesy to actually respond to the message.

10. Security Considerations

   This draft does not have any security considerations as it deals 
   strictly with message and reply formats in electronic 
   communications.


11. References

   [RFC-1855], Hambridge, S., "Netiquette Guidelines", RFC 1855, 
   October 1995.

12. Author's Addresses

   John Bambenek
   Pentex Net, Inc.
   1535 W. Schuamburg Rd #204          Phone:  1-312-285-6009
   Schaumburg, IL. USA                 Email:  jba...@pentex-net.com

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