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Original Usenet thread from alt.ascii-art, started 26 Dec 1994.
 _   _                     _        _             _     _           
| | | |___  ___ _ __   ___| |_     / \   _ __ ___| |__ (_)_   _____ 
| | | / __|/ _ \ '_ \ / _ \ __|   / _ \ | '__/ __| '_ \| \ \ / / _ \
| |_| \__ \  __/ | | |  __/ |_   / ___ \| | | (__| | | | |\ V /  __/
 \___/|___/\___|_| |_|\___|\__| /_/   \_\_|  \___|_| |_|_| \_/ \___|
GIF prononciation. Word from the CREATOR!

GIF prononciation. Word from the CREATOR!

alt.ascii-art · 52 messages · 26 Dec 1994 - 13 Jan 1995
INeedChese <ine...@aol.com> 26 Dec 1994 22:30 · permalink
it's with a hard g anyone who disagrees does not deserve to live that is
all

Timmy <tsh...@undergrad.math.uwaterloo.ca> ASCII art 27 Dec 1994 02:38 · permalink
In article <3dng5c$nj...@newsbf01.news.aol.com>,
INeedChese <ine...@aol.com> wrote:
>it's with a hard g anyone who disagrees does not deserve to live that is
>all

Perhaps you should direct that comment to Bob Berry (creator of the .GIF
format).  He's at 765...@compuserve.com.  He's pretty sure that it's
pronounced "jif" since he defined it that way.

Cheers

Tim
-- 
_ _ __  ___________  ____  ___  __ |"For false Christs and false prophets will
_ ___   \__  _\ \  \/ \  \/ \ \/_/ | appear and perform signs and miracles to 
  _ __  `--\_\-\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\\_\  | deceive The Elect - if that were possible.
     - -   `-' `-"-"-"-'-"-"-'`-'  | So be on your guard;" - Mark 13:22-23[NIV]

Ron Vissers <rvi...@exepc.com> ASCII art 27 Dec 1994 14:56 · permalink
In article <D1C...@undergrad.math.uwaterloo.ca>, tsh...@undergrad.math.uwaterloo.ca says...
>

>Tim,
>
>GIF has always been pronounced "jif", since it was first released in 1987.
>
>Bob
>-------
>
>So, there you have it.  Proof from the man who made the standard.
>
>Now, stop saying "gif", or I will hunt you down and scan you to death.  ;)
>

So....the creator was Wrong.

its G ....hard g. as in Graphic Interchange Format or also
Gargantuan In Filesize.





                           `     `                  _____________
              ,      `    ,...''', `   ___________-'''''_____RKM.|
      -    -  - - - - :::;- - - - '  ``-----------\\\\\\_______.-/    ___ 
              `           `'''...`                   ,'.__  __\,,,_ /'.\_`\
                     `             `    .   _ ___.--'''`--''// ,-_/` \/' `\`\
Ron Vissers                `     `      \`"' ' |  \  \ \\/ / // / /.|'     |'|
Comp. Sci. Dsgn. Eng.                  /'`  \   |  Y  | \|/ / // |  .\    /'/'
                                      /<"\ \  \ \  |  | ||/ // |  \/  |  `-'
Battlelords - 23rd Century           /  _.-. \.-\,___|  _-| / \ \/|_/ |
      Game Master                    `-'  f/ |       / __/ \__  /  |_/ |
                                          `-'       |  -| -|\__ \   |-'|
Team Internet Paintball                          __/   /__,-'    ) ,' ;'
      TIP#398                                   ((__.-'((____..-' <<_,'
<rvi...@execpc.com>    aka: Pantera     Peace through excessive Firepower!

Ron Vissers <rvi...@exepc.com> ASCII art 27 Dec 1994 14:59 · permalink
In article <D1D...@undergrad.math.uwaterloo.ca>, tsh...@undergrad.math.uwaterloo.ca 
says...
>

>There are plenty of examples where the acronymn does not fit the 
>abbreviation!  Go with the standard!  JIF JIF JIF JIF.... 
>

Conformist!

:)

I'm a rebel looking for a Cause.....or is it Koss.

Besides, peanut butter doesn't go well with my monitor.




                           `     `                  _____________
              ,      `    ,...''', `   ___________-'''''_____RKM.|
      -    -  - - - - :::;- - - - '  ``-----------\\\\\\_______.-/    ___ 
              `           `'''...`                   ,'.__  __\,,,_ /'.\_`\
                     `             `    .   _ ___.--'''`--''// ,-_/` \/' `\`\
Ron Vissers                `     `      \`"' ' |  \  \ \\/ / // / /.|'     |'|
Comp. Sci. Dsgn. Eng.                  /'`  \   |  Y  | \|/ / // |  .\    /'/'
                                      /<"\ \  \ \  |  | ||/ // |  \/  |  `-'
Battlelords - 23rd Century           /  _.-. \.-\,___|  _-| / \ \/|_/ |
      Game Master                    `-'  f/ |       / __/ \__  /  |_/ |
                                          `-'       |  -| -|\__ \   |-'|
Team Internet Paintball                          __/   /__,-'    ) ,' ;'
      TIP#398                                   ((__.-'((____..-' <<_,'
<rvi...@execpc.com>    aka: Pantera     Peace through excessive Firepower!

Timmy (tsh...@undergrad.math.uwaterloo.ca) scribbled this on a usenet napkin:
 >In article <3dng5c$nj...@newsbf01.news.aol.com>,
 >INeedChese <ine...@aol.com> wrote:
 >>it's with a hard g anyone who disagrees does not deserve to live that is
 >>all
 >
 >Perhaps you should direct that comment to Bob Berry (creator of the .GIF
 >format).  He's at 765...@compuserve.com.  He's pretty sure that it's
 >pronounced "jif" since he defined it that way.
 >
 >Cheers
 >
 >Tim


And we're all STILL waiting for a rational explanation as to why.
If you want to be real helpful, write him back and ask him.
Until then I'll just pronounce GIF as "throatwobbler mangrove"
and let it go at that.



--
==========================================================================
James Evan Jacoby        |  "I'm so confident I'm sane."         -> Gordon
gal...@loreli.ftl.fl.us |  "I'd go out of my mind but for you."    Sumner
==========================================================================

D.M. "Quozl" Falk <quo...@netcom.com> ASCII art 28 Dec 1994 07:59 · permalink
Timmy (tsh...@undergrad.math.uwaterloo.ca) wrote:

[...]

:                                              Third: it's a widely used 
: word, and one would hope that the majority of users would get it right.

Mistake #1: "GIF" is not a common word outside of computers. "Jif" is, 
though, and not just as a trademark. The word "jif" implies simple and 
quick, and "quick" is one thing GIFs are not.

I side with the hard-G crowd....

....Quozl!


-- 
  //////======////////// |Dennis M. Falk    |221 Huntoon St.|TTA/Animaniacs/WB
 / @ )        \\\\\\\\\\ |aka "Quozl Mephit"|Eureka, CA     |TaleSpin/CnD-RR
*___(_____(___|          |(quo...@netcom.com)|95501-4115 USA |Fifi/Babs/Minerva
Supporting your right to own a pet Mustelid! (Skunks, ferrets, otters, minks..)

 |Quoting Quo...@netcom.Com to All concerning Re: GIF prononciation.:
>Mistake #1: "GIF" is not a common word outside of computers. "Jif" is,
>though, and not just as a trademark. The word "jif" implies simple and
>quick, and "quick" is one thing GIFs are not.
>I side with the hard-G crowd....
 |-----------------|Ken Weiss responded:

Add mine to the list of those that pronounce GIF with a hard G.


--  OLX 1.53:
Reality-ometer:  [\........]  Hmmph!  Thought so...

                   ken...@moondog.com

In article <D1D...@undergrad.math.uwaterloo.ca>, tsh...@undergrad.math.uwaterloo.ca (Timmy) says:

>Look, GIF isn't some old word like "cough" and "through" with a strange
>prononciation that was never really defined.  Why do people consistently
>ignore the fact that the CREATOR has defined it to be pronounced "jif"?
>Bob Berry - 765...@compuserve.com - ask him yourself!

Actually the real "creator/inventor" of GIF is Steve Wilhite who does work
for CompuServe.

-- Matt Williams

Vasilios Pilarinos <vqp...@is2.nyu.edu> ASCII art 28 Dec 1994 18:29 · permalink
Timmy (tsh...@undergrad.math.uwaterloo.ca) wrote:
: To answer your first question: because it's wrong.  To answer your second,
: to keep newbies from sounding like newbies.  Third: it's a widely used 
: word, and one would hope that the majority of users would get it right.
: GIF probably won't be used "a few years" down the road, but it's been around
: for 8 years now, and certainly seems pretty prevalent.  Let's try and
: say it properly, shall we?

	Properly? It's an acronym, for Chrissakes. Acronyms are supposed 
to sound like the words they represent, regardless of what the inventor 
of the acronym says. If I start an acronym GOL and pronounced it TURKEY, 
would you pronounce it turkey as well just because I say so?

--
(*  _____ __ _ __  ___  :    Vasilios  Pilarinos    : 'If only you knew *)
(* |___\ V /| '_ \|___| : Mail: vqp...@is2.nyu.edu : the things I have *)
(*      \_(_) .__(_)    : Information Systems Major : seen in the dark- *)
(*          |_|         :     - Class of 1997 -     : ness of night...' *)

Heck, when I first found out about GIFs, I thought it was a take-off on
what they were in the the BBS world...ie, GIFTS!  Yup, color me stupid, but
I'll always call them 'g'ifs.

-Jim-
ait...@lvld.hp.com

i was one of the people at compuserve who wrote up the gif format. it is
pronounec witha soft "g"


sorry folks, this ends it


matt
_____________

ken...@moondog.com (KENNETH WEISS) writes:

>
>  |Quoting Quo...@netcom.Com to All concerning Re: GIF prononciation.:
> >Mistake #1: "GIF" is not a common word outside of computers. "Jif" is,
> >though, and not just as a trademark. The word "jif" implies simple and
> >quick, and "quick" is one thing GIFs are not.
> >I side with the hard-G crowd....
>  |-----------------|Ken Weiss responded:
>
> Add mine to the list of those that pronounce GIF with a hard G.
>
>
> --  OLX 1.53:
> Reality-ometer:  [\........]  Hmmph!  Thought so...
>
>                    ken...@moondog.com





why not jes name it JIF if they want it to sound like that?  Jif is peanut 
butter.

Matthew Z. Rascoff (Mat...@nyo.com) wrote:
: i was one of the people at compuserve who wrote up the gif format. it is
: pronounec witha soft "g"


: sorry folks, this ends it


No. I'm sorry, Matt. This ends nothing.  When you create something and 
send it out into the great wide world, you of necessity give up some of 
your power over it.

Just because you helped make it up doesn't mean you get to say how it's 
pronounced.  You may get to have a pretty weighty opinion, but that's 
it.

You pronounced it _J_IF ?  Good for you. You're wrong (IMHO).  I know that's 
pretty staunchly stated, but if you take those letters in that order and 
show it to someone who has never heard of a computer, let alone this 
debate, and they're going to come up with _G_IF (hard G).  Them's the breaks.

**IF** the G had stood for something pronounced originally with the 
soft-G, then, okay, maybe, possibly, there could be some argument for the 
_J_IF way of saying it.  But that's not the case.

As it stands now, there have been a number of solidly based arguments in 
this thread in favor of the hard G sound and only two flavors of 
arguments in favor of the soft G sound.

The first of those, the one that goes "The originators said it with a 
soft G!" can't hold.  If I think Eliot's _Prufrock_ is a great work of 
art, and enough people agree with me, then it goes into the canon, even 
if Eliot comes to me personally and sais, "it's crap."  Okay. Bad 
example.  But you know what I mean. (I just got off a plane)

The second flavor of argument pretty much only finds examples of 
exceptions to the various 'general-rule' approaches to the hard G 
argument.  The problem with that is that all the exceptions are either 
specifically reasoned exceptions *or* archaic words that represent the 
state of their pronunciation when they were imported to whatever language 
they were in before English.

The hard G sound makes more sense.  The hard G sound is the natural 
reaction to the letters GIF in that order.  Your OPINION notwithstanding, 
I'm on the hard G side and strongly so.

This post does NOT end it, folks.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------
;) (with a wink and a smile) -- Ben Manevitz.
Pax Vobiscum (b.n.t.m.)         bma...@dolphin.upenn.edu
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
"The law is the witness and external deposit of our moral life.  Its 
history is the history of the moral development of the race.  The 
practice of it, in spite of popular jests, tends to make good citizens...."
                                         --Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes
                     _The_Path_of_the_Law_, 10 Harv.L.Rev 457, 458 (1897)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Timmy <tsh...@undergrad.math.uwaterloo.ca> ASCII art 31 Dec 1994 16:05 · permalink
In article <3e2sti$m1...@netnews.upenn.edu>,
Bilbo Baggins <bma...@dolphin.upenn.edu> wrote:
>Matthew Z. Rascoff (Mat...@nyo.com) wrote:
>: i was one of the people at compuserve who wrote up the gif format. it is
>: pronounec witha soft "g"
>
>
>: sorry folks, this ends it
>
>
>No. I'm sorry, Matt. This ends nothing.  When you create something and 
>send it out into the great wide world, you of necessity give up some of 
>your power over it.
>
>Just because you helped make it up doesn't mean you get to say how it's 
>pronounced.  You may get to have a pretty weighty opinion, but that's 
>it.
>
>You pronounced it _J_IF ?  Good for you. You're wrong (IMHO).  I know that's 
>pretty staunchly stated, but if you take those letters in that order and 
>show it to someone who has never heard of a computer, let alone this 
>debate, and they're going to come up with _G_IF (hard G).  Them's the breaks.

Gimme a break, will you?  Your statement is groundless and is quite arrogant,
IMHO (as your universal disclaimer seems to immediately convey correctness).
If you want to talk down to one of the creators, then you're showing your
own idiocy.  Sorry for the flame, but I can't stand people who fly in
the face of reason.  If you don't believe in the merits of standardization,
then throw out anything that says "ISO 9000" on it.

Them's the breaks.  (Sheesh, what a worthless pundit).

Tim

(flame away)

-- 
_ _ __  ___________  ____  ___  __ |"For false Christs and false prophets will
_ ___   \__  _\ \  \/ \  \/ \ \/_/ | appear and perform signs and miracles to 
  _ __  `--\_\-\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\\_\  | deceive The Elect - if that were possible.
     - -   `-' `-"-"-"-'-"-"-'`-'  | So be on your guard;" - Mark 13:22-23[NIV]

Why not just pronounce it
"Graphics Interchange Format"??

StarFleet Admiral Bero,
current Captain of the starship U.S.S. Tawern, NCC-54456
                                        _
.-----________________--_   ________.--'-`--._____
 \____==================_)  \_'===================`
        _,--___.-|__|-.______|=====/  `---'
        `---------._  USS - Tawern|
                    `-._ -  -  - ,'
                        \_____,-'

e-mail:
##BER...@Flash.gun.de ##

Kilroy <jgp...@kong.syr.edu> ASCII art 1 Jan 1995 01:13 · permalink
In article <3e2sti$m1...@netnews.upenn.edu> bma...@dolphin.upenn.edu (Bilbo Baggins) writes:
>Matthew Z. Rascoff (Mat...@nyo.com) wrote:
>: i was one of the people at compuserve who wrote up the gif format. it is
>: pronounec witha soft "g"
>
>
>: sorry folks, this ends it
>
>
>No. I'm sorry, Matt. This ends nothing.  When you create something and 
>send it out into the great wide world, you of necessity give up some of 
>your power over it.
>
>Just because you helped make it up doesn't mean you get to say how it's 
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<SNIP>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>The hard G sound makes more sense.  The hard G sound is the natural 
>reaction to the letters GIF in that order.  Your OPINION notwithstanding, 
>I'm on the hard G side and strongly so.
>
>This post does NOT end it, folks.
>
>


Go for the hard G.  Mines always hard:

 
                           __ __
                          /  V  \
                         /       \
                        /         \
                       (_ _     _ _)
                         | \_ _/ |
                         |  | |  |
                         |  | |  |
                         |  | |  |
                         |  | |  |
                         |  | |  |
                         |  | |  |
                   _____ |  | |  | ______
                  /, , ,\|       |/  ,  ,\
                 /  , ,            ` , ,  \
                /  , ,   `         `    ,  \
                \      `          `   `    /
                 \  '   ` '     ,  ,   ,  /
                  \__________/\__________/


Gee!
---
     All You Touch And All You See      jgp...@mailbox.syr.edu   ____
     Is All Your Life Will Ever Be.     (315) 689-7463            /    \
     I think, therefore I am confused!  John G. Poupore          | O  O |
     Live Long And Prosper, for I shall do neither.               \ || /
     All I can say is that my life is pretty plain                 |++|
     I like watching the puddles gather rain                        --
     WARNING:  If you're going to take drugs, DON'T TAKE MINE :)

Yours is hard, but short?


---
    ______
___/   __ \______    ___________________________________________________
        _\_\_____)  /                                                  /
       (____)      /   New email address, same great person!  ;^)     /
__    (_____)     /                                                  /
  \____(___)      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

In a previous article, BER...@flash.gun.de (Bernhard Rosenkraenzer) says:

>Why not just pronounce it
>"Graphics Interchange Format"??

You say tomato, I say tomato.

Hmm.  Loses something in the translation.

Happy New Year, y'all.
-- 
+               S T O P   D O M E S T I C   V I O L E N C E                +
+ In Lake County:                            In Cuyahoga County:  391-HELP +
+ Forbes House  953-9779                     WomenSpace Hotline:  696-3100 +
*- There's  N O  Excuse -*- There's  N O  Excuse -*- There's  N O  Excuse -*

In article <3e2sti$m1...@netnews.upenn.edu>,
Bilbo Baggins <bma...@dolphin.upenn.edu> wrote:
>
>No. I'm sorry, Matt. This ends nothing.  When you create something and 
>send it out into the great wide world, you of necessity give up some of 
>your power over it.
>
>Just because you helped make it up doesn't mean you get to say how it's 
>pronounced.  You may get to have a pretty weighty opinion, but that's 
>it.

Why don't you pronounce something like _thorough_ or _rough_?  If you 
go out into the "great wide world" pronouncing a hard 'G', who's going to 
look like an idiot?  Would you defend yourself by saying that it's common 
sense that since there's a G in the word that it's ridiculous to *not* 
pronounce it?

But then again, you might be the type to spell these words as:  thurow 
and ruff.  There's no law in the English language that says that words 
(or acronyms) have to be spelled phonetically.  Frankly, whoever invented 
a new word should have the final say.

  /||_    _ |_  _  _ _    /~~ _  _ __ _ |  _  ,   University of Washington 
 /~||_)|~(_|| )(_|| | )  (__)(_)| )/_(_||_(/_/_)  Seattle, Washington
                                                  abr...@u.washington.edu

abr...@u.washington.edu (Abraham Gonzales) writes:

>In article <3e2sti$m1...@netnews.upenn.edu>,
>Bilbo Baggins <bma...@dolphin.upenn.edu> wrote:
>>
>>No. I'm sorry, Matt. This ends nothing.  When you create something and 

[...]

saying it with a hard G sounds real dorky.

  /||_    _ |_  _  _ _    /~~ _  _ __ _ |  _  ,
 /~||_)|~(_|| )(_|| | )  (__)(_)| )/_(_||_(/_/_) writes:
>Frankly, whoever invented 
>a new word should have the final say.

yup.  it really bothers me that almost everyone speaking English is
pronouncing the vowels all wrong.  like when the word "cow" was
invented, it was supposed to be pronounced /ku/.  but then came the
Great Vowel Shift, and suddenly everyone was using weird diphthongs
like /ei/ for long "a" instead of /a/.  I wish everyone would
pronounce vowels the way they're really supposed to be.

(wow, this thread is lasting longer than the "show your sig" thread.)
--

Bilbo Baggins <bma...@dolphin.upenn.edu> ASCII art 2 Jan 1995 05:13 · permalink
Timmy (tsh...@undergrad.math.uwaterloo.ca) wrote:

: Bilbo Baggins <bma...@dolphin.upenn.edu> wrote:
: >Matthew Z. Rascoff (Mat...@nyo.com) wrote:
: >: [snip]
: >
: > [snip again]
: >You pronounced it _J_IF ? Good for you. You're wrong (IMHO).  I know that's
: > [more snippage]
: >debate, and they're going to come up with _G_IF (hard G). Them's the breaks.

: Gimme a break, will you?  Your statement is groundless and is quite arrogant,
: IMHO (as your universal disclaimer seems to immediately convey correctness).

First of all, I honestly don't understand the parenthetical above, so I 
won't respond to it.

Second of all... The IMHO was added after I finished the first paragraph, 
because on my reread I realized I had come off sounding extraordinarily 
arrogant and I really was just expressing My Humble Opinion, so I put the 
IMHO in there to convey the fact that I, at least, am aware that the 
lingusitics training I have is limited *and* that I was not speaking with 
the voice of the whole .net community.  If you took it to be a sort of 
throwaway insertion meant to placate would-be flamers, you greatly 
overestimate the concern I have for would-be flamers.  If you understood 
the IMHO for what it was, but didn't perceive it as sufficient to convey 
the sycophantic demeanor you might have assumed if prompted to disagree 
with someone, then you overestimate the concern I have for the approaches 
others might take to tasks I feel I do well enough.


: If you want to talk down to one of the creators, then you're showing your
: own idiocy.

Look, if I were talking to the creator of GIF about the technical aspects 
of GIF, then I would both be talking down to the creator *and* showing my 
idiocy.  I'm not.  I'm talking about the pronunciation of a new word, a 
subject in which Matt is no more an expert than I - not to say I'm a huge 
expert or anything, but I am just as qualified _on_this_subject_ as he 
is, or you are, as far as I know.


:              Sorry for the flame,

Oh.  I'm weeping. (humorous sarcasm).  I have a thicker skin than that.  
Jeez, I'm a law student -- if I don't get used to some barbs a little 
rougher than "idiot" I'm in for a rough life.

Besides.  You're not sorry. (I wouldn't be)

:                                   but I can't stand people who fly in
: the face of reason.  If you don't believe in the merits of standardization,
: then throw out anything that says "ISO 9000" on it.

I believe strongly in the merits of standardization, and I'm not about to 
reject the GIF standard just because I disagree with some people's 
pronunciation of the name.  I won't even reject the standardization of 
the pronunciation of the word, >>>once that's settled<<< which it's 
obviously not.

Disagreeing with a given standard doesn't mean that I reject the merits 
of standardization.  You and a bunch of people want _J_IF to be the standard.
There were a bunch of people, once, who wanted Betamax to be the standard 
too.  No one said that just because the VHS people wanted VHS to be the 
standard that the VHS people were against standardization.

I wouldn't go so far as to call you an idiot, per se, but your argument 
that disagreeing with a given standard implies that I reject 
standardization, well... it flies in the face of reason. ;)

: Them's the breaks.  (Sheesh, what a worthless pundit).

I'm sorry, when did they make the rule that friendly colloquialisms 
invalidate an argument or discredit the arguer?  I must have missed that 
in my undergraduate time on the division championship debate team of 
which I was a member.  

You write "Sheesh," and you're making fun of "Them's?" Okay.

: Tim

: (flame away)

Believe me, Tim, this was not a flame.



-------------------------------------------------------------------------
;) (with a wink and a smile) -- Ben Manevitz.
Pax Vobiscum (b.n.t.m.)         bma...@dolphin.upenn.edu
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
"The law is the witness and external deposit of our moral life.  Its 
history is the history of the moral development of the race.  The 
practice of it, in spite of popular jests, tends to make good citizens...."
                                         --Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes
                     _The_Path_of_the_Law_, 10 Harv.L.Rev 457, 458 (1897)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Abraham Gonzales (abr...@u.washington.edu) wrote:
: Bilbo Baggins <bma...@dolphin.upenn.edu> wrote:
: >
: >No. I'm sorry, Matt. This ends nothing.  When you create something and 
: >send it out into the great wide world, you of necessity give up some of 
: >your power over it.
: >

: Why don't you pronounce something like _thorough_ or _rough_?  If you 
: go out into the "great wide world" pronouncing a hard 'G', who's going to 
: look like an idiot?  Would you defend yourself by saying that it's common 
: sense that since there's a G in the word that it's ridiculous to *not* 
: pronounce it?

Golly Gee and Gila monsters! I never thouGht of letters havinG different 
^     ^       ^                          ^                   ^
sounds dependinG on their place in a word and the letters around them!!
               ^ 
(sarcasm, for those who didn't catch it)  Give me a break, IQ-boy.  

I didn't say that *every* time one encounters the letter G, you have to 
pronounce it and you have to pronounce it hard.  HOWEVER, I am working in 
the context of words that _start_ with G, and follow it immediately with 
the vowel I, sepcifically the short I, since no one seems to be 
disagreeing with that, and following that with a fricative consonant 
(somebody check my terminology on the F and V - I did these courses 4 
years ago), since no one seems to disagree on that either.

In that context, you will be hard pressed to find examples of the soft-G 
initial sound.  Obviously, if you structure the 'new' word differently, 
you'll pronounce it differently.  If the acronym were THOROUGH, I wouldn't 
be a proponent of the hard-G.  But if you'll look closely, the acronym is 
*not* THOROUGH or ROUGH.  it's GIF, which on first reading will be 
pronounced with a hard G by the vast majority of experienced readers of 
English.  I'm not making this up, this isn't just a whimsical idea.  
There are, there must be, *some* ground rules to pronunciation.  
Otherwise no one could ever encounter a new word in reading and even hope 
to pronounce it correctly.


: But then again, you might be the type to spell these words as:  thurow 
: and ruff.
Oh, you cut me to the quick (sarcasm again).

:            There's no law in the English language that says that words 
: (or acronyms) have to be spelled phonetically. 

And this is relevant, how?



:                                                 Frankly, whoever invented
: a new word should have the final say.

In Your Humble Opinion.  With which I disagree.  Let's look at spelling:  
England's been around far longer than America, and I don't think I'm 
stretching it to say that American English got a lot of it's words from 
English English.  How come, then, do we write COLOR while they write 
COLOUR ?  I think it's pretty safe to say that whoever invented the word 
did not have the final say there.

How about Usage, Idiom, and Definition:  What we call a fanny the English 
call a bum, and don't dare pat a girl on her 'fanny' uninvited in 
England, or, for that matter, invite her bum to a hot meal.  At the end 
of a meal, don't say "I am stuffed," no matter how full you are, and 
don't ask others if they're "done."

Want to stay on this continent?  Okay... Take the words "GAY" and "FAGGOT."  
They sure as heck don't mean now what they meant some years ago.  
Originators of those words sure didn't get the final say.  How about the 
word "QUICK?" 

Want to make this a more on-point argument?  Stay with pronunciations? 
Okay.   How about the evolution of the name Gwendolyn into Jennifer?  
Somewhere along the line somebody softened that G, and I doubt they 
changed the spelling first.

What's the point??  Where am I going??  One word: EVOLUTION.
English is a living language and therefore it is evolving.  All the 
time.  Even while you read this.

I stand by my original point:  The creator of a word gets total control 
over the pronunciation, usage, and meaning of that word only for so long 
as he doesn't share that word with anyone.  When enough people know a 
secret it's not a secret anymore, is it?  When enough people have a word 
in their vocabulary it is for the aggregate of those people to determine 
the fate of that word.

If I go outside tomorrow and call someone a "faggot," no matter what I 
intend, I will NOT be calling them a burning piece of wood.  That would 
be true even if I had invented the word years ago.  If, in some number of 
years, everybody adopts a standard way of saying GIF, and assume, 
arguendo, that it's with the hard-G, then I don't care *who* comes up to 
me and starts talking about a file he wants to give me in the _J_IF 
format, it's going to take me a minute to figure out what he's talking about.

If you want to follow the inventor's >>suggestion,<< that's your 
perogative (sp?) until a standard is set, and even then it's your right, 
although the communicated message will be modified to include at best a 
personal, inherent  obstinate nature or more likely a lack of experience 
or expertise.

But don't try to foist that blind conformity on the rest of us.  Of 
course, you might be the type to spell that word "phoighst."



-------------------------------------------------------------------------
;) (with a wink and a smile) -- Ben Manevitz.
Pax Vobiscum (b.n.t.m.)         bma...@dolphin.upenn.edu
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
"The law is the witness and external deposit of our moral life.  Its 
history is the history of the moral development of the race.  The 
practice of it, in spite of popular jests, tends to make good citizens...."
                                         --Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes
                     _The_Path_of_the_Law_, 10 Harv.L.Rev 457, 458 (1897)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Berton Corson (g91...@huey.csun.edu) wrote:
: Timmy (tsh...@undergrad.math.uwaterloo.ca) wrote:
: > Okay, finally.  I got sick of everyone here saying "gif" (hard G) and
: > so I ran my CSHOW, got Bob Berry's email address from the end credits,
: > and asked him myself how the thing is pronounced.  My mail:
: > -----
: I never understood why it is supposed to be pronounced 'jif', anyway.
: Reason, GIF stands for 'graphical interface format'.  The word
: 'graphical' has a hard 'g', so logic would have it that 'gif' would
: have a hard 'g' also.  We don't pronounce graphical, 'jraphical',
: do we??

	So then, how do you pronounce the word "scuba"?
S.elf
C.ontained
U.nderwater
B.reathing
A.pparatus

	now, is it "sc_oo_ba" or "sc_uh_ba"?   ...or do you prefer to
pronounce that other word "oo_nderwater"? =^)

	I have and always will pronounce it like the peanut butter.
(unless you offer me a million to switch over. =^)  My friend says it
the other way, but we don't get into holy-wars about it.  Whichever
way either of us says it, the other will know what he was talking about.

	If anything, the fact that it irritates some people
	so much as to go ballistic is more incentive for me
	to say it peanut-butter-style. >=^)

...now I can see one of the reasons the rec group went moderated. =^)

obASCII (from my .plan)...
 ______________________________________________________________________
|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
|                                                                      |
|          ASCII artist available for hire, inquire within.            |
|                                                                      |
|                                                                      |
|                                                                      |
|                  _,ooooo,                                            |
|                odP""~~""Yb                                           |
|              d8P"        "b                                          |
|             dP            8                                          |
|            dP             8                                          |
|           dP             d"                                          |
|          dP              8                                           |
|         dP             ,o8oooooo,                                    |
|        dP            ,dP"~~  ~""Yb,                                  |
|       d9           ,dP            8                                  |
|       8           dP"             8                                  |
|       8          dP               "b                                 |
|       8         dP                 8                                 |
|       8        dP          o       8                                 |
|     ,d8        8          dP       "b                                |
|    d8"         Yb        dP         8                                |
|  odP            Yboooooo8P          "b,                              |
| dP               ~""""~~              Yb                             |
|dP                                      8b                            |
dP          ,oooooooooo,                  "b                           |
8    ,ooooo8P~~~~~~~~~~Yboooooo            "b                          |
8  ,dP~ __                 ~~~Ybooo         "b                         |
Yb 8~  d88b                   __ ~Y8         8                         |
 Yb8   8888                  d88b  Y8        8                         |
  88   Y88P        oo        8888   8       d"                         |
  "8b   ~~        Y88P       Y88P   8     ,d"                          |
    8bo            ~~         ~~   d8   ,8P"                           |
     "8boo        ___,           d8P__d8P"                             |
     ,d~"Yboooo,__    _____,oood88od88b                                |
    dP"    ~~~~"""8""""8""~~~~~~~~    Ybo                              |
   d8            d"    8,               Yb                             |
    8bo_       .d"     "8       _,ooooo888b                            |
    d""Yboooood9"       8boooood88"8"~~~Yb                             |
    8b   8                         "8,   Yb                            |
    "Ybo,8                          "Yb  d8booo,                       |
      ~"Y8                            YbdP"~~~Y8b                      |
         8                             Yb       Yb                     |
         Yo                             Yb       8                     |
          Yo                             Yb      8                     |
           Yo                             8    ,d"                     |
            8                             8bood9"                      |
            8                            dP ~~~                        |
          ,o88booo,   d                ,dP                             |
         d8      "Yboo8                8P                              |
         8        odP""                8                               |
         Ybo,    dP                    8              Also Available:  | 
          ~Y8booo88                   d8                 Pochacco      | 
             ~~~~8bo,_____            8"              Kerokerokeropii  |
94j18gtk          ~"Y88888888booooooodP________________________________|
                        ~~~~""""""""""~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
--
_ga...@uhunix.uhcc.hawaii.ed...@cleveland.freenet.edu_
       XTC   Nakajima Michiyo   nin   Revolution   Atari2600    KOF'94
                                  semprini!

In article <3e84r9$kl...@netnews.upenn.edu>, bma...@dolphin.upenn.edu (Bilbo Baggins) writes:
|> I didn't say that *every* time one encounters the letter G, you have to 
|> pronounce it and you have to pronounce it hard.  HOWEVER, I am working in 
|> the context of words that _start_ with G, and follow it immediately with 
|> the vowel I, sepcifically the short I, since no one seems to be 
|> disagreeing with that, and following that with a fricative consonant 
|> (somebody check my terminology on the F and V - I did these courses 4 
|> years ago), since no one seems to disagree on that either.
|> 
|> In that context, you will be hard pressed to find examples of the soft-G 
|> initial sound.  Obviously, if you structure the 'new' word differently, 
|> you'll pronounce it differently.  If the acronym were THOROUGH, I wouldn't 
|> be a proponent of the hard-G.  But if you'll look closely, the acronym is 
|> *not* THOROUGH or ROUGH.  it's GIF, which on first reading will be 
|> pronounced with a hard G by the vast majority of experienced readers of 
|> English.  I'm not making this up, this isn't just a whimsical idea.  
|> There are, there must be, *some* ground rules to pronunciation.  
|> Otherwise no one could ever encounter a new word in reading and even hope 
|> to pronounce it correctly.

OK, to minimize really obscure words, I took out my *pocket* Webster's
New World Dictionary (front and back covers and a few pages missing so
no publ. date).

Count of entries (I'm not responsible for chosing why some similar words
got separate entries) by pronunciation of 'G' followed by 'I':

soft G (j): giant, gibbet, gibe, giblet, Gibraltar, gigantic, gigolo, gin,
.           gin(2), ginger, ginger ale, gingerbread, gingerly, gingersnap,
.           gingivitis, gin rummy, gip, Gipsy, giraffe, gist

hard G (g): gibbon, giddy, Gideon, gift, gifted, gig, giggle, gild,
.           gilt, gilt-edged, gimlet, gimmick, gimp, gigham, ginko, gird,
.           girder, girl, girl scout, girt, girt(2), girth, give,
.           give-and-take, giveaway, given, given name, gizmo, gizzard

both (j&g): gibber, gibberish, gill (actually one entry each), gimbals

totals: hard - 29, soft - 20, both - 4

If you add your further restriction of 'G' followed by *short* 'I' the list
becomes:

soft G (j):        gibbet,       giblet, Gibraltar,           gigolo, gin,
.           gin(2), ginger, ginger ale, gingerbread, gingerly, gingersnap,
.           gingivitis, gin rummy, gip, Gipsy, giraffe, gist

hard G (g): gibbon, giddy, Gideon, gift, gifted, gig, giggle, gild,
.           gilt, gilt-edged, gimlet, gimmick, gimp, gigham, ginko,
.                                                           give,
.           give-and-take, giveaway, given, given name, gizmo, gizzard

both (j&g): gibber, gibberish, gill (actually one entry each), gimbals

totals: hard - 22, soft - 17, both - 4

In either case, I think there are sufficient examples of both pronunciations.

Adding the further restriction of 'followed by a fricative' makes the sample
size to too small IMO (gist is a soft 'g' example, BTW).  Why not add the
further restriction of 3 characters leaving no words to debate?

This brings us back to two choices:

1/ origin: in which the authors say 'soft g'.
2/ de facto: majority rules. (question: who should be asked?)

Point: How do you pronounce LaTeX?  Pronunciation rules say: 'lay teks';
computer users say 'la tech'.

My vote has just changed from 'soft g' to 'both/either' as in 'gibberish'.

---mike...
mik...@an.hp.com

Bilbo Baggins (bma...@dolphin.upenn.edu) wrote:
: There are, there must be, *some* ground rules to pronunciation.  
: Otherwise no one could ever encounter a new word in reading and even hope 
: to pronounce it correctly.

Margarine.

: Want to make this a more on-point argument?  Stay with pronunciations? 
: Okay.   How about the evolution of the name Gwendolyn into Jennifer?  
: Somewhere along the line somebody softened that G, and I doubt they 
: changed the spelling first.

Guinevere, Guenever, Ginevra, Genievre.

: What's the point??  Where am I going??  One word: EVOLUTION.
: English is a living language and therefore it is evolving.  All the 
: time.  Even while you read this.

GIF, JIF, HIF.

R. J. Valentine <val...@clark.net>

In a previous posting, Bilbo Baggins (bma...@dolphin.upenn.edu) writes:
> Matthew Z. Rascoff (Mat...@nyo.com) wrote:
> : i was one of the people at compuserve who wrote up the gif format. it is
> : pronounec witha soft "g"
> 
> 
> : sorry folks, this ends it
> 
> 
> No. I'm sorry, Matt. This ends nothing.  When you create something and 
> send it out into the great wide world, you of necessity give up some of 
> your power over it.
> 

None of your arguments make sense.  Its pronounced with a soft G.
Everyone I know pronounces it this way.

dio...@infinet.com 3 Jan 1995 08:40 · permalink
Bilbo Baggins (bma...@dolphin.upenn.edu) wrote:

}At the end 
}of a meal, don't say "I am stuffed," no matter how full you are, and 
}don't ask others if they're "done."

Yes, all cannibals recognize those as bad form. The proper form of the 
first, is simple silence. ("The fat cannibal gets the pot" and all that.) 
The second is an exercise in imagination, since all know that a squirming 
dish is only "done" if one happens to be a Klingon or Ferengi.

}Originators of those words sure didn't get the final say.  How about the 
}word "QUICK?" 

That is copyrighted. Ask the bunny.

}What's the point??  Where am I going??  One word: EVOLUTION.

Could you hurry the process up? :)

}If, in some number of 
}years, everybody adopts a standard way of saying GIF, and assume, 
}arguendo, that it's with the hard-G, then I don't care *who* comes up to 
}me and starts talking about a file he wants to give me in the _J_IF 
}format, it's going to take me a minute to figure out what he's talking about.

I too would have trouble understanding why somebody would want a file in 
"peanut butter" format...

--
        TwinkCode v1.12 T8(6!) C3 L5w dv a- w- c+v y! e k(-) s- m1 m2+
   GEEK 2.1 GS/L/O !d(?) H++ s+: g+ p? w++ v>!v C+ US+ P--- E- N++@ K++ !W
	M+ -po+ Y t+@ 5++ j+ G tv b++ !D B- e+ u(++) h f r n+(-) y+(**)
       Finger for PGP 2.6.1 key  <--->  HTTP://www.infinet.com/~dionisio

And the Thought of the Moment (tm) is...

'And every so often, one of them says "Have no fear, my friend! I will
protect you against that piece of duct tape! And while I'm at it, watch me
shred this cardboard box for no apparent reason."'
                -- Geoffrey Brent, waxing eloquent on the topic of cats

dio...@infinet.com 3 Jan 1995 08:43 · permalink
Chad Thomas (hom...@hakatac.almanac.bc.ca) wrote:

}why not jes name it JIF if they want it to sound like that?  Jif is peanut 
}butter.

Because "jraphic" makes it sound like we're zookeepers talking about tall 
animals from Africa.

--
        TwinkCode v1.12 T8(6!) C3 L5w dv a- w- c+v y! e k(-) s- m1 m2+
   GEEK 2.1 GS/L/O !d(?) H++ s+: g+ p? w++ v>!v C+ US+ P--- E- N++@ K++ !W
	M+ -po+ Y t+@ 5++ j+ G tv b++ !D B- e+ u(++) h f r n+(-) y+(**)
       Finger for PGP 2.6.1 key  <--->  HTTP://www.infinet.com/~dionisio

And the Thought of the Moment (tm) is...

"I drink to make other people interesting."
                -- George Jean Nathan

dio...@infinet.com 3 Jan 1995 08:46 · permalink
Timmy (tsh...@undergrad.math.uwaterloo.ca) wrote:

}then throw out anything that says "ISO 9000" on it.

I should HOPE you'd automatically throw such documents out. That's HAL 
asking for a date. And you KNOW how much trouble that is!

--
        TwinkCode v1.12 T8(6!) C3 L5w dv a- w- c+v y! e k(-) s- m1 m2+
   GEEK 2.1 GS/L/O !d(?) H++ s+: g+ p? w++ v>!v C+ US+ P--- E- N++@ K++ !W
	M+ -po+ Y t+@ 5++ j+ G tv b++ !D B- e+ u(++) h f r n+(-) y+(**)
       Finger for PGP 2.6.1 key  <--->  HTTP://www.infinet.com/~dionisio

And the Thought of the Moment (tm) is...

"Very few beings really seek knowledge in this world.  Few really ask. On
the contrary, they try to wring from the unknown the answers they have
already shaped in their own minds - justification, confirmation, forms of
consolation without which they can't go on. To really ask is to open the
door to a whirlwind.  The answer may annihilate the question and the
questioner."
		-- Anne Rice

dio...@infinet.com 3 Jan 1995 08:56 · permalink
Dan Hornback (cre...@crl.com) wrote:

}saying it with a hard G sounds real dorky.

Well, since computer users are "dorky", or "geeks" anyway, why SHOULDN'T 
they be pronouncing it with a hard "g"?

--
        TwinkCode v1.12 T8(6!) C3 L5w dv a- w- c+v y! e k(-) s- m1 m2+
   GEEK 2.1 GS/L/O !d(?) H++ s+: g+ p? w++ v>!v C+ US+ P--- E- N++@ K++ !W
	M+ -po+ Y t+@ 5++ j+ G tv b++ !D B- e+ u(++) h f r n+(-) y+(**)
       Finger for PGP 2.6.1 key  <--->  HTTP://www.infinet.com/~dionisio

And the Thought of the Moment (tm) is...

"Part of our cultural heritage as Texans is that at some point in our
rearing, each one of us has decide whether we really are as crazy as other
people think we are, or if this is just our little joke." 
                -- Gary N. Reese

dio...@infinet.com wrote:
>Dan Hornback (cre...@crl.com) wrote:
>}saying it with a hard G sounds real dorky.
>Well, since computer users are "dorky", or "geeks" anyway, why SHOULDN'T 
                                             ^^^^^
You misspelled "jeeks"

	Goe "Hard G" Rumsey

--
Oh? grrrr!

On Tue, 3 Jan 1995, Robin Forster wrote:

 (Citing Bilbo Baggins) :
> > No. I'm sorry, Matt. This ends nothing.  When you create something and 
> > send it out into the great wide world, you of necessity give up some of 
> > your power over it.
> > 
> 
> None of your arguments make sense.  Its pronounced with a soft G.
> Everyone I know pronounces it this way.
> 

Well, Robin, it's up to you.  For me Bilbo's arguments make a good 
sense.  i'm a poor judge here, since my native language is Russian, but 
gor me _G_ is more natural than _J_.  What about "Everyone I know 
pronounces it this way." - go to Russia and ask anybody to pronounce, it 
will be _G_IF in 100%, well, maybe 99.9% ;-)


____________________________________________
  Lev A. Gorenstein
  Chemistry Department
  Purdue University
  W.Lafayette, IN 47907, USA
  (317)494-5289; Fax (317)494-0239
  le...@chem.purdue.edu

Vern Hart <ver...@cs.uidaho.edu> ASCII art 4 Jan 1995 01:24 · permalink
WHAT DIFFERENCE DOES IT MAKE?!!!  PEOPLE HAVE FREE WILL, THEY CAN 
PRONOUNCE IT ANYWAY THEY WANT TO!!!  WHO CARES IF THEY'RE RIGHT OR WRONG 
AS LONG AS THEY SPELL IT CORRECTLY!!!

Vern Hart              _|      _|    _|_|    _|  _|_|  _|_|_|
114 S Almon Apt A      _|      _|  _|_|_|_|  _|_|      _|    _|
Moscow, ID 83843         _|  _|    _|        _|        _|    _|
(208)882-8508              _|        _|_|_|  _|        _|    _|
http://www.cs.uidaho.edu/~vern/  ver...@cs.uidaho.edu  ver...@slip.net

val...@clark.net (T. M. Valentine) writes:

>Bilbo Baggins (bma...@dolphin.upenn.edu) wrote:
>: There are, there must be, *some* ground rules to pronunciation.  


Test Time:

Jiff is to GIF as GHOTI is to _________.

Dan Hornback (cre...@crl.com) wrote:
: val...@clark.net (T. M. Valentine) writes:

: >Bilbo Baggins (bma...@dolphin.upenn.edu) wrote:
: >: There are, there must be, *some* ground rules to pronunciation.  


: Test Time:

: Jiff is to GIF as GHOTI is to _________.

Ichthos.

T. M. Valentine (val...@clark.net) wrote:
: Dan Hornback (cre...@crl.com) wrote:
: : val...@clark.net (T. M. Valentine) writes:

: : >Bilbo Baggins (bma...@dolphin.upenn.edu) wrote:
: : >: There are, there must be, *some* ground rules to pronunciation.  


: : Test Time:

: : Jiff is to GIF as GHOTI is to _________.

: Ichthos.

Or is it ichthus?  It's all Greek to me.

Mike Nakagawa <mik...@news.an.hp.com> ASCII art 4 Jan 1995 05:30 · permalink
In article <3ed7k0$ah...@crl4.crl.com>, cre...@crl.com (Dan Hornback) writes:
|> val...@clark.net (T. M. Valentine) writes:
|> 
|> >Bilbo Baggins (bma...@dolphin.upenn.edu) wrote:
|> >: There are, there must be, *some* ground rules to pronunciation.  
|> 
|> 
|> Test Time:
|> 
|> Jiff is to GIF as GHOTI is to _________.
|> 

I'll bite.  _fish_

Q: Why are we talking about GIFs in an ASCII newsgroup?

---mike...

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Mike Nakagawa              *######   /   ######*  Patient Monitoring Division
 Software Design Engineer   ######   /_  _ ######  Hewlett-Packard Co.
   ECG Algorithms           #####   / / / / #####  3000 Minuteman Road
 e-mail: mik...@an.hp.com    #####  / / /_/  #####  Andover  MA  01810
 Phone:  508-659-3245       ######    /    ######
 FAX:    508-687-8284       *######  /    ######*  Central Phone: 508-687-1501
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
.                    Go ahead: Ask me about City Year

Mike Nakagawa:
>Q: Why are we talking about GIFs in an ASCII newsgroup?

because you can make GIFs out of ascii art.  I've done a few.  there's
one in my web page.
--

In article <3ed7k0$ah...@crl4.crl.com> cre...@crl.com (Dan Hornback) writes:

>val...@clark.net (T. M. Valentine) writes:

>>Bilbo Baggins (bma...@dolphin.upenn.edu) wrote:
>>: There are, there must be, *some* ground rules to pronunciation.  


>Test Time:

>Jiff is to GIF as GHOTI is to _________.

Fish

gh = f as in couGH
o  = i as in wOmen
ti = s as in loTIon
_____________________________________________________________________________
@@@@@@@    @@@@@@  @@@ @@@   @@@@@@@  @@@  @@@   @@@@@@   "You can't hug your
@@@@@@@@  @@@@@@@  @@@ @@@  @@@@@@@@  @@@  @@@  @@@@@@@@   kids with Nuclear
@@!  @@@  !@@      @@! !@@  !@@       @@!  @@@  @@!  @@@   Arms, but you can
!@!  @!@  !@!      !@! @!!  !@!       !@!  @!@  !@!  @!@   really keep them
@!@@!@!   !!@@!!    !@!@!   !@!       @!@!@!@!  @!@  !@!   warm."
!!@!!!     !!@!!!    @!!!   !!!       !!!@!!!!  !@!  !!!                
!!:           !:!     !!:   :!!       !!:  !!!  !!:  !!!   These views are 
:!:           !:!     :!:   :!:       :!:  !:!  :!:  !:!   my own and not
 ::       :::: ::      ::    ::: :::  ::   :::  ::::: ::   necessarily those
 :        :: : :       :     :: :: :   :   : :   : :  :    of the Air Force.
_____________________________________________________________________________

Daniel Au <dca...@casbah.acns.nwu.edu> ASCII art 4 Jan 1995 07:08 · permalink
Blub blub, Dan Hornback <cre...@crl.com> wrote:
>
> val...@clark.net (T. M. Valentine) writes:
>
>>: Bilbo Baggins (bma...@dolphin.upenn.edu) wrote:
>>: There are, there must be, *some* ground rules to pronunciation.  
>
>
>Test Time:
>
>Jiff is to GIF as GHOTI is to _________.
>

I know, I know!!!

** Spoiler Protection ** (hope it works...)











'GH' as in enough, 'O' as it abbott, 'TI' as in emotion.

If you use that pronounciation, it spells obviously...*drumroll please*

____            ___                   ,---~~~--~~--~~~-,
 ', \,__   __,'',/                  ('  |~~ | (~ |_| |  )
   \    \/'   ./  ,.__               (  |~  | _) | | . )'
     \       /     `, ~~~~~~';.       '-__--_ -__--__-'
       \    /     ,-`----------'--,      o  O
        |\ /\___/'             /-\ \       o
         \`                   ' .O  `\    .
          |          ,--     |\_______) .
           |       <'   ,            /
            `,      '~~~'          /'
              `~;~~~~~~~~~~~~~~,~~'          Fish by DCAU '95
              ;'''~~~~~~~~~~~~'               

--
                |_| /||~)|~)\ /  |\||_~|  |  \ /|_~ /||~>  |
                | |/~||~ |~  |   | ||__\/\/   | |__/~||~\  .
 
 Daniel C. Au       oo   ooooooo    ooooooo   oooooooooo    dca...@nwu.edu
 Northwestern     o888  888    888 888    88o 888           Resolutions:
 University        888   888oo8888  888oo8888 888888888o    1) study more
 Medical School    888        888        888  ooo    o888   2) play less
 Chicago, IL      o888o    o888       o888      88ooo88     3) get a life

Daniel Au (dca...@casbah.acns.nwu.edu) wrote:
>Blub blub, Dan Hornback <cre...@crl.com> wrote:
>>Jiff is to GIF as GHOTI is to _________.
>>
>** Spoiler Protection ** (hope it works...)

Try a ctrl-l.  Not like this really needed protection, did it?


>'GH' as in enough, 'O' as it abbott, 'TI' as in emotion.

"abbott"?  You say that "abbitt"?  Usually this joke has 'O' as in
women.  The way you have it, I'd say it spells...*drumroll please*
>____            ___                   ,---~~~--~~--~~~-,
> ', \,__   __,'',/                  ('  |~~| |(~ |_| |  )
>   \    \/'   ./  ,.__               (  |~ |_|_) | | . )'
>     \       /     `, ~~~~~~';.       '-__--_ -__--__-'
>       \    /     ,-`----------'--,      o  O
>        |\ /\___/'             /-\ \       o
>         \`                   ' .O  `\    . 
>          |          ,--     |\_______) .   
>           |       <'   ,            /	     
>            `,      '~~~'          /'	     
>              `~;~~~~~~~~~~~~~~,~~'          Fish by DCAU '95
>              ;'''~~~~~~~~~~~~'               

Mmmmm, Fush and chups!

--
"Your superior intellect is no match for our puny weapons!"


On 4 Jan 1995, T. M. Valentine wrote:

> T. M. Valentine (val...@clark.net) wrote:
> : Dan Hornback (cre...@crl.com) wrote:
> : : val...@clark.net (T. M. Valentine) writes:
> 
> : : >Bilbo Baggins (bma...@dolphin.upenn.edu) wrote:
> : : >: There are, there must be, *some* ground rules to pronunciation.  
> 
> 
> : : Test Time:
> 
> : : Jiff is to GIF as GHOTI is to _________.
> 
> : Ichthos.
> 
> Or is it ichthus?  It's all Greek to me.
> 
> 
> 
_______ = Fish

In article <3ed7k0$ah...@crl4.crl.com>, Dan Hornback <cre...@crl.com> wrote:
>val...@clark.net (T. M. Valentine) writes:
>
>>Bilbo Baggins (bma...@dolphin.upenn.edu) wrote:
>>: There are, there must be, *some* ground rules to pronunciation.  
>
>
>Test Time:
>
>Jiff is to GIF as GHOTI is to _________.
>

Fish.

-- 
_ _ __  ___________  ____  ___  __ |"For false Christs and false prophets will
_ ___   \__  _\ \  \/ \  \/ \ \/_/ | appear and perform signs and miracles to 
  _ __  `--\_\-\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\\_\  | deceive The Elect - if that were possible.
     - -   `-' `-"-"-"-'-"-"-'`-'  | So be on your guard;" - Mark 13:22-23[NIV]

Daniel Au <dca...@casbah.acns.nwu.edu> ASCII art 4 Jan 1995 17:46 · permalink
Consulting his dictionary, Joe Rumsey <ogr...@netcom.com> wrote:
>
>Daniel Au (dca...@casbah.acns.nwu.edu) wrote:
>
>>>Jiff is to GIF as GHOTI is to _________.
>>>
>>** Spoiler Protection ** (hope it works...)
>
>Try a ctrl-l.  Not like this really needed protection, did it?

Not really... :] but my ctrl-l doesn't work with this news reader, hence the
blank lines.  We're talking dramatic effect here!

>>'GH' as in enough, 'O' as it abbott, 'TI' as in emotion.
>
>"abbott"?  You say that "abbitt"?  Usually this joke has 'O' as in
>women.  The way you have it, I'd say it spells...*drumroll please*

Blame it on regional differences.  When you have a native East-coaster living
in the Midwest who has a Chinese background, you're bound to get interesting
nuances in one's pronounciation ;P  Yes, I do say "abbitt" along with a number
of others here...along with wadder, oarange (one syllable), and tom-ay-to ;)

>Mmmmm, Fush and chups!

              ___  _____
            .'/,-Y"     "~-.
            l.Y             ^.
            /\               _\_      
           i            ___/"   "\     Ghish...fush...chups...
           |          /"   "\   o !       forget it...DOUGHNUT!
           l         ]     o !__./        /
            \ _  _    \.___./    "~\
             X \/ \            ___./		or is that Dowfnut? ;)
            ( \ ___.   _..--~~"   ~`-.
             ` Z,--   /               \
               \__.  (   /       ______)         /~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~/|
                 \   l  /-----~~" /             /__________________/ |
                  Y   \          /              |                  | |
                  |    "x______.^               |    DOUGHNUTS     | |
                  |           \                 |__________________|/
                  j            Y


--
VITAL SIGNS:__________________________________________________________________
_/\/\/\/\_____/\/\/\/\_____/\_____/\/\__/\/\______________________Daniel C. Au
_/\/\__/\/\_/\/\_________/\/\/\___/\/\__/\/\___...@nwu.edu
_/\/\__/\/\_/\/\_______/\/\__/\/\_/\/\__/\/\___________Northwestern University
_/\/\__/\/\_/\/\_______/\/\/\/\/\_/\/\__/\/\____________________Medical School
_/\/\/\/\_____/\/\/\/\_/\/\__/\/\___/\/\/\________________"I'm sorry doctor...
______________________________________________________I'm afraid we lost him."

Dan Hornback (cre...@crl.com) wrote:
: val...@clark.net (T. M. Valentine) writes:

: >Bilbo Baggins (bma...@dolphin.upenn.edu) wrote:
: >: There are, there must be, *some* ground rules to pronunciation.  


: Test Time:

: Jiff is to GIF as GHOTI is to _________.

Jiff (proposed pronunciation) is to GIF (actual spelling) as
Fish is to GHOTI....

This is not new.  In fact, the whole point of that 
GHOTI demonstration is that pronunciations can be surprising.

But for a thing to be surprising, it has to deviate from an expected 
norm.  That expected norm is structured by those ground rules that I'm 
talking about.



-------------------------------------------------------------------------
;) (with a wink and a smile) -- Ben Manevitz.
Pax Vobiscum (b.n.t.m.)         bma...@dolphin.upenn.edu
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
"The law is the witness and external deposit of our moral life.  Its 
history is the history of the moral development of the race.  The 
practice of it, in spite of popular jests, tends to make good citizens...."
                                         --Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes
                     _The_Path_of_the_Law_, 10 Harv.L.Rev 457, 458 (1897)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

cre...@crl.com (Dan Hornback) writes:

>val...@clark.net (T. M. Valentine) writes:

>>Bilbo Baggins (bma...@dolphin.upenn.edu) wrote:
>>: There are, there must be, *some* ground rules to pronunciation.  


>Test Time:

>Jiff is to GIF as GHOTI is to _________.

goatee!  

Ed Blount <hop...@loreli.ftl.fl.us> ASCII art 5 Jan 1995 00:28 · permalink
On Dec 31, 1994, Bilbo Baggins (BB) expostulated,
O{+>Matthew Z. Rascoff (Mat...@nyo.com) wrote:
O{+>: i was one of the people at compuserve who wrote up the gif format. it is
O{+>: pronounec witha soft "g"
O{+>
O{+>
O{+>: sorry folks, this ends it
O{+>
O{+>
O{+>No. I'm sorry, Matt. This ends nothing.

Don't you people have anything better to do?  Who actually _gives a flying
fig_ how other people pronounce it?  Jeeeezus!  Get over it!  Pronounce
it however you like, and let this thread die.

--
  |\_/|   _  _  __   __   __  ____  ___    "Are there really angels?
 /     \  |--| [__] |--' |--' ==== |--<     Or are they all in our mind?
/_.^ ^._\                                   It all comes out in the wash
   \@/     hop...@loreli.ftl.fl us          In time." - Prince

Joe Rumsey <ogr...@netcom.com> ASCII art 5 Jan 1995 02:49 · permalink
Ed Blount (hop...@loreli.ftl.fl.us) wrote:
>Don't you people have anything better to do?  Who actually _gives a flying
>fig_ how other people pronounce it?  Jeeeezus!  Get over it!  Pronounce
>it however you like, and let this thread die.

  Pronounce it "JPEG" and let the format die.

  GIF is dead, long live JPEG!

--
   (3-D .Sig)    (3-D .Sig)_   (3-D .Sig) _  (3-D .Sig)  _
/\ /~` /~) /_  /\ /~` /~) /_  /\ /~` /~) /_  /\ /~` /~) /_
\/ \_) \~\ \_ _\/ \_) \~\ \_ _\/ \_) \~\ \_ _\/ \_) \~\ \_
@netcom.com / / @netcom.com | | @netcom.com \ \ @netcom.com
oe Rumsey  /_/  Joe Rumsey  |_|  Joe Rumsey  \_\  Joe Rumsey

In article <3e9lta$c5...@hpscit.sc.hp.com>,
Mike Nakagawa <mik...@news.an.hp.com> wrote:
|> Point: How do you pronounce LaTeX?  Pronunciation rules say: 'lay teks';
|> computer users say 'la tech'.

Actually I think Don Knuth borrowed TeX from Greek, and in Greek it's
pronunced as 'tek'?  Since LaTeX is built upon TeX, it's naturally 'laytek'.

|> My vote has just changed from 'soft g' to 'both/either' as in 'gibberish'.

Agree ...
-- 
"A little Dobbs'll do you."
                - Emle O'Day

Look, No matter how you pronounce it..I'd still like to know..how you did 
that ASCII-ART Signature, Abraham Gonzales..;) :) I  am Gleam and I have 
had a  real fancy for ASCII -ART..I happen to be  a real fan of it..and I 
really would love to know...what program is used to create ASCII ART and 
Would you or anyone out there please tell me what program to look for..And 
do you know where I can find more ASCII-ARTS.....I think they are alot of 
fun..;) And I would love to be able to create them..;) Thanks you again..;)

Lynda

"Gleam" ;) If you Please respond I'd appreciate it..;) Thanks..;)
Gle...@cnj.digex.net :) :)

hop...@loreli.ftl.fl.us (Ed Blount) writes:
>Don't you people have anything better to do?  Who actually _gives a flying
>fig_ how other people pronounce it?  Jeeeezus!  Get over it!  Pronounce
>it however you like, and let this thread die.

You know, fig spelled backwards is... :)
--
 x x 
 ___ 
'|||` ran(dy+som)
 `-'  ran...@scf.usc.edu

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