Re: Rude folks, indeed.....

Dear JRO,

I have followed ascii art and admired it for so long it really amazes me,
all the way back to my days in "Genie" when it was still in DOS.  I love
ascii art, and think its a beautiful way to express ones self with a pc.  It
was my "first" experience into the world of graphics as well.

I see your point very clearly about the "theft" of ascii art and the credits
one should give to an ascii artists.  I don't know that you were in one of
my channels, but I don't believe I would have recognized you even when you
were.  I am usually pretty busy and rarely notice new folks unless they need
some help.  I recently myself had an experience where a so called IRC person
decided to write a file for mIRC, and pass it off as his own art when it
clearly is not his art.  I confronted him over it, and even kept the logs.
Later I took his file and captured the images of the actual artist and what
"he calls" his art.  I have every intention of posting it to my website
within the week.

Alot of problems stem from color in mirc and it only being a little over 2
years old.  Most started with the idea of the ascii art, and looking thru
websites to see what they could find.  Most "color" artists (especially
those who've colored for along time now) are either drawing their own art,
or have learned to give credit to the actual ascii artists.  Unfortunately
there are many ascii art sites that also have ascii art posted without those
initials and finding the original artist is extremely difficult.

Then there are those who just mass produce color files to see how many they
can produce, and you can tell the difference in "their" art versus the art
of someone who takes there time, just as you can with an ascii artist who
did the same thing.

Just as a graphic artist who makes a background picture or matching pictures
for a website deserves to have credit.  I recently ran across a person who
said to me and I quote "whele I don't take from websites where they say ask
for a link back to there site, I take from the ones that are free"  LOL!!!!!
like duh!!!! did you ever wonder where they got those so called graphics
they call free.  This same person is a mass producer of color art and
doesn't often give credit, because she believes that once she alters
original ascii art, it becomes hers... :(

Arguing with her will get you nowhere, and to support a campaign like the
Ascii Artists Blue Ribbon Campaign that truffles started with jgs is
probably unheard of to her, because she is probably taking from those sites
without the credit in the original ascii art and will say, well gee, there
was no credit on it.

And I personally have been ripped on another website for that "blue ribbon"
because that person believes I stole and didn't give credit for that ribbon,
if that person had bothered to check with truffles "which I personally and
immediately did" he would have found out she got the ribbon from a machine
"cgi" thing that produces ribbons of sorts.  He actually accused me of using
the "free speech for internet blue ribbon" although I doubt he really
emailed the people who are in charge of that movement itself.  The ribbon
now offers the link to truffles site for the campaign and the link to the
makers of that ribbon.  But his intentions instead were to just rip me
instead because of a personal vendetta he has towards me.  This is the same
ribbon that jgs herself has on her site.  Did he rip her as well....nope.

I can't say that "color" artists do not take credits out, and it is the
policy of the artists who show others how to color in mirc in my channel to
tell new artists not to remove credits.  We do everything possible to be
sure to give credit in, just as a artist who painted a portrait would sign
their work.  We even offer a file that says clearly in the howtodo file do
not take ascii artists credits off there art.

I can't say or even tell you that my website is perfect, I freely admit I
have colored ascii art their where there was no credit to the ascii artist,
and while I wish I knew who to give credit to, it is nearly impossible to do
so.  I wish that somehow if an ascii artist were browsing thru my site and
they saw there art or someone's they recognize, I would hope they would
email me and let me know its theres so I could add a credit for them.  I
would have it there as soon as I saw there email, simply because of the ease
of adding to a website...I certainly don't run a 300 page website without
knowing how to edit those pages :)

I did however join the Blue Ribbon Campaign and added a page stating my
opinions so that those who do deserve credit get it.  When I know the artist
I make every attempt to give proper credit.  I do everything I can to insure
this is done.  When I started out, I was not so "aware" as I am now.  The
difference is, I do try.  I do not want anyone to be left out as far as
credit goes.

Newsgroups are open to anyone and unfortunately, we either give freely,
knowing that probably one in ten will rip the credit out, but for that one
person 9 will keep it with respect to the artist.  Just as a color artist
spends hours coloring a file and freely gives it out only to have it altered
by some jerk who thinks he has the right to alter it.  I have followed this
newsgroup for at least 2 years now and I have seen lots of wonderful people
satisfied by the generous artists who so freely give of there talent and
their time.  I have even asked for something from time to time and been
thrilled when art arrived in my email.  I know your dismayed, discouraged
and upset over the happenings in IRC, and I wish I had a way to solve your
problem, unfortunately, I don't.  We can only hope that eventually people
will learn to give credit where its due, and for those that don't, I will
expose them... :)  I have no intention of letting theft happen and will
expose any individual who claims something as there own that was clearly
altered.

This letter went on far longer than I had planned to, and I'm sure I didn't
do or make you feel any better, but I hope that in some small way you will
realize that most IRC color artists are giving credit and do try to give
proper credit where its due.

patches
http://www.mirc-rainbow.com
pat...@mirc-rainbow.com

JRO <ogl...@mail.fullnet.net-remove> wrote in message
news:374fbe76.0@206.103.97.91...
> Hey folks,
>
>     I recently got some invites in the e-type mail to
> "chat" on IRC. I used to use that program some, back when
> my sister and her husband were stationed in Korea. It
> were cheaper than the telephone, ect.. Anyways,
> I have turned on IRC a few times over the last couple of
> weeks. They have all these "color" channels, now. They
> make popups (those things are ascii or extended-character
> pix that "play" on IRC, which are internet relay chat).
>
> Some of those folks are pretty nice. They got me updates
> to that chat program I was usin', and sent me this text-
> player thing that will let you select an ascii text play
> on IRC. They even sent me this tiny program that "colors"
> ascii for use on IRC (it makes a mess of the pix, with color
> codes, ect.).
>
> I realize most of you know about this stuff, but some don't,
> so I alreddy 'splained it.
>
> A lot of them folks on IRC is polite... although I will add
> that many don't care for my risque' cartoons, and you
> can't hardly play a strip, on account of it are too long
> for them (ever heared of anythin' so silly? Made me feel
> like I was submittin' real cartoons to some magazine editor,
> tellin' me ta "Make it shorter". Ridiculocust. Who wouldn't
> want to read a 1,700-line cartoon by me? And what else haff
> they got to do, anyways?). Anyway, you cain't stay in SOME
> of them color or rainbow channels fer long, because sumbody
> will start playin' a pix with no credits, or have THIER OWN
> "credits". For instance, I thought Joan made this:
>
>         .===.
>        / _/\ \
>        \/6.6\/
>        (  _  )
>        _)---(_
>       /  `~`  \
>      /\/     \/\
>      \ |     | /
>       \|_____|/
>        |  L  |
>        |__|__|
>         | | |
>         |_|_|
>  jgs   _|_|_|_
>       (___|___)
>
> ... which I just now copied out of that pix of all four kids.
> Well, it turns out I were wrong; Joan didn't make that. Some
> broad who calls hersel'f "maryemd" made that pix. 'Cept she
> added a little hat, and a dog of Joan's but isn't, becuze
> "maryemd" has "made" it. Including IRC-color, of course.
>
> This broad even keeps a web page, which I ain't seen. You kin
> imagine what is on that.
>
> Haley-Jane must also be confused, becuz she didn't make this 'un:
>
>                           ,~-.
>                          (  ' )-.          ,~'`-.
>                       ,~' `  ' ) )       _(   _) )
>                      ( ( .--.===.--.    (  `    ' )
>                       `.%%.;::|888.#`.   `-'`~~=~'
>                       /%%/::::|8888\##\
>                      |%%/:::::|88888\##|
>                      |%%|:::::|88888|##|.,-.
>                      \%%|:::::|88888|##/    )_
>                       \%\:::::|88888/#/ ( `'  )
>                        \%\::::|8888/#/(  ,  -'`-.
>                    ,~-. `%\:::|888/#'(  (     ') )
>                   (  ) )_ `\__|__/'   `~-~=--~~='
>                  ( ` ')  ) [VVVVV]
>                 (_(_.~~~'   \|_|/   hjw
>                             [XXX]
>                             `"""'
> Sumbody else has, although their version is in color. I think it pretty
> rude of HJW to try foolin' us all, by postin' pix that she ain't made.
>
> -=Helicopter=-
>   ___________________________    __________________________
>   `--------------------------`()'--------------------------'
>                               ||
>                            __ ||                                        __
>                            ] """"---...._                             .' /
>                      _,-"""==============`--.                       .'/)/
>                    ,' ) ,--. .-----.         `.___________________.' ///_
>                  .'  / /___| |_____|  e c      G-DMG       _______  ()  _>
>                 /   / /____| |__|__|             ,----"""""       `//  \
>               .<`=='===========================.'                 (/`.  \
>              (  `.----------------------------/                       `._\
>               `-._\_                ____...--'
>                     """--ii--'"""77"
>           hjw      .____//______//___,
>                    `-----------------'
>
> I just reposted that helio-chopter, on account of I like it. It ain't
> got nutthin' to do with this here e-type newsgroup post. Anyway, Haley
> prob'ly didn't make it, either. Like enuff, it were made by sum guy
> named "Cybergeek", or "Chatdick". Who knows? Maybe Mad Dog really made
> it.
>
> Stop in on the ChatNet IRC network, if you have an IRC program, and have
> the stomach. Or several others.... you can find them yourself, if you
> know anything about "chat". There seem to be several places to find the
> aktual "are-teests" of many of these pix, that peeple like Haley-Jane
> claims SHE made... What a wench.
>
> Doan git me wrong... There is some nice folks out there, who do color
> pix copied from this newsgroup, or any number of websites. I even git
> email from IRC-enthusiasts, who ask fer a pix or two, or haff a
> ree-quest. I doan mind, at all. Sometimes I like makin' them a pix.
> Usual, I don't, because I make cartoons... or try to... Hell, I do,
> and screw you if you don't like 'em. But I have done a few e-type
> mail requests.... more than I like to admit to. Some of you answer
> a LOT of IRC-related requests. I'm sure most of your correspondents
> are thrilled to leave your pix alone when they color them...
>
> We been through all this afore. Y'all know that some of my views
concernin'
> credits is slightly different. Mostly in the ree-spect that I wouldn't ask
> folks to keep initials on an e-type mail signature pic; who wants somebody
> else's name on their e-comms? But that's my deal, and I don't make a lot
> of signasutures.
>
> Otherwise, I think folks ought to git credit fer thier pix. It's about all
> you're going to git, anyway -- s'not like you make tons of money for
typing
> a picture. Then along comes some yahoo, who copies your little pic, and
> colors it, and plays it on IRC, and sends it around to lots of other folks
> on IRC, and from there it ends up ah goin' who knows where, and all the
while,
> they claim, "I made this". Yah.... sure.
>
> Consider this. My brother had a collector's coloring book published. I'm
> sure there were people who actually colored it. Did that make them the
> artists of the artwork?... Hardly.
>
> You IRC people reading this; Krogg done related the three levels of
etiquette
> on this here issue:
>
> Level 1 --- including author's credit on the pix; most polite approach.
>
> Level 2 --- not including author's credit on the pix; less polite
approach.
>
> Level 3 --- claiming you did the pix yourself; the fuck-you approach.
>
> Now, if you leave the author's name off of the work, then I could maybe
> accept that, myself... on occasion. If you go around claiming the pic
> as your own, saying YOU made it, or putting your name on the pix, then
> you've obviously adopted Level 3.... The only real reason you have for
> not crediting the real author on your popped-thing, is because you want
> to tell people that "I made it". And you do, and you know who you are.
>
> Well, you can color a coloring book, but that don't mean you "made" the
> pictures. A coloring book frequently has the artists' names somewhere
> on it; or at least they got paid for drawing it.
>
> Sure... I know. I alreddy heared 'splantions about how, "Well, we do what
> we want ON our channel". Yah. Well, that's not what you do, is it? Most
> of you ripper-folks send out the colored pix you've copied, and they end
up
> all over the place. I know that the audience on IRC is somewhat limited,
but
> that's no excuse. The kind of people I have "chatted" at are well aware
> of the eatiquet that goes with copying pix --- they even read this
newsgroup.
> They don't post, but they do read. They can tell you all about Joan's
sprained
> wrist, Sara gettin' her head akcidentally shaved inna combine, Martin's
failure
> to pass elementry school, Krogg's hemmorhoids, and my... well, I'll keep
that
> one to myself, if'n you doan mind.
>
>     You decent color-folk on IRC don't get huffed, now. I ain't tokkin'
> about you.
>
>     But I am talking about you people who steal pix, and claim they's
yours.
> They're not, and I find you irritating. And you smart-ass me, which is
also
> irritating, on account of you fuckers cain't type fast enough to even
carry
> on a conversation. And your 'splanations is all sorry ones...
>
>     Go into one of them color-ascie-ripoff channels and use your name, and
> they'll know who you are. I've went onto channels where they stopped
playing
> pix, dead. They knew who I was, and waited to see if I would go. When I
didn't,
> they would un-connect me from their channel. Wow... like I was heartbroken
over
> it. Of course, some would do that if I told them to get a fucking life, or
> played "The Diagnosis" (edited for IRC, but still in B+W.... go look it up
on
> my web page, if you have to know. I just changed the caption to read
"chatrooms"
> instead of "websites").
>
>     Enough of being silly... for a second. Most of the regulars here are
proud of
> thier text-pictures. That's why they make posts to this newsgroup, and
post web
> pages. Nobody minds sharing thier pictures, but nobody likes seeing people
try
> to "claim" them, either. The only reward you get for making text-pix, is
the
> response you get from the people who see it; there is no compensation....
>
>                         \__/           \__/
>                         (__)       (\  (__)
>                     / .//()\\       \\//()\\ \
>    "Look at the Boss   \\__//        \/\__// "Yes, but I suggest we stay
>     lie; he's making    ||||           ||\\   off his thread, Xvtlt. You
>     thousands off of    ||||           ||//     remember what happened,
>      this drivel!"     (_)(_)         (_)_)           last time."
>
>     .... other than reposts and e-type mail. If folks want to copy it and
use
> it somewhere, or color it and play it on IRC, then that's flattering. Not
so,
> however, when it's been ripped by somebody who claims they "made" it, just
> because they added color. Seeing your pix ripped like that, makes one want
> to keep it to themselves. It doesn't matter if it's cut+pasted portions of
an
> ascii; that kid up above was still made by somebody, and that somebody
might
> want people to know who did it. Copying a character out of a picture is
still
> copying,...
>                \__/ /)          \__/
>                (oo)//        /) (oo) \
>           /  .//~~ /         \\//~~\\ "Well, me and the Boss was
> "Have we been \\__/           \/\__/\\ pretty "ripped", about an
> ripped, Dtlu?" //\\             ||||(/       hour ago..."
>               // //             ||||
>              (_)(_)            (_)(_)
>
> ... and it sure spoils the fun in making and posting any asskey.
>
>     Which makes me think of something else. Why do you folks who do it,
> do it? I'd make my own. Then you can actually claim it, for real. If
> you "mirc-artists" are so hot, why don't you post here? Drop me a line,
> if you have trouble getting started, or just about anyone else; they'd
> be happy to help you... except for Veronica, maybe, who would probably
> send you the same kind of answer you will get from me, on Tuesdays.
> So, maybe you better not write me, on Tuesday. Any other time, and I'd
> probably help you.
>
>     I can promise you it's a lot more fun to make your own pix, than
> steal someone else's. It's not very hard, either. Then when you say
> you "made" a popper (even if it's amyl nitrate), it will really be
> true. Who knows? You might even make some good asskey. Maybe somebody
> will even rip it off, and say they did it. You'll have joined the
> big leagues, then.
>
>                             \__/         \__/
>                             (oo)         (oo)
>                         / .//~~\\      .//~~\\ \
>          "Time to split,   \\__//       \\__// "Affirmative. This is
>               Dtlu."        //\\         //\\    getting dull."
>                           .// //       .// //
>                          (_) (_)      (_) (_)
>
>     Or you might just quit being a colored rip-off. It's not hard
> to put in a set of initials; you can even add "colored" by whoever,
> to claim your own IRC-type credit. It would keep you friendly with the
> people who make the pictures you like to use, and it might even keep
> you from having problems with them.
>
>     Oh well.... I need a drink.
>
>
>           JRO
> oglesbee@
>         mail.fullnet.net
>
>
>
>
>

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