Sorry for the FAQ posting

Sorry to post the FAQ messages again so soon, but I was just testing the new
version of my posting automator that now allows me to select which FAQs I
post and which I don't each week.
How often shall I post each one?
At the moment, I've got the documents list, the MiniFAQ, the Not Looking
Right guide and the Big FAQ for weekly posting and all the olde FAQ files
along with Colin's control codes, animations and that Make a start tutorial
by Daniel Au posting monthly. Is this OK by everyone?

I was also wondering something else... a long time ago I remember someone
saying something about posting the FAQ files with the same somethingorother
so that you only see them once until you delete them from your newsreader
when they come back again. I think that this would be a better way of
posting these, so that everyone doesn't have to re-download it each
week/month... what do you all think, and how is it done?

-Martin
 __  __          _   _
|  \/  |__ _ _ _| |_(_)_ _
| |\/| / _` | '_|  _| | ' \   o  Happy Birthday to me...
|_|  |_\__,_|_| _\__|_|_||_| /|\ It`s my birthday you see...
    /_\| |_| |_(_)_ _  ___   / \ On the 25th day of March...
   / _ \  _| / / | ' \(_-<       Happy Birthday to me...
  /_/ \_\__|_\_\_|_||_/__/
  mart.atkins @ bigfoot.com --- REPLY ADDRESS IS ROT13`ed
      http://voices.vossnet.co.uk/a/atkins/ascii.htm
If you are new to the newsgroup, please read our FAQ list - 
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Martin Atkins wrote:
> 
> Sorry to post the FAQ messages again so soon, but I was just testing
> the new version of my posting automator that now allows me to select
> which FAQs I post and which I don't each week.

Well, it's not working. The subjects are different, but the body for
each message is my FAQ in each case -- the tutorials, the mini-FAQ, the
old FAQ, they all turn out to be my FAQ. (Which is no bad thing, IMNSHO
... :-)

> How often shall I post each one?
> At the moment, I've got the documents list, the MiniFAQ, the Not
> Looking Right guide and the Big FAQ for weekly posting and all the
> olde FAQ files along with Colin's control codes, animations and that
> Make a start tutorial by Daniel Au posting monthly. Is this OK by
> everyone?

IMNSHO, there actually isn't anything in the other docs which isn't
covered in the main FAQ. The only drawback to the main FAQ is that it is
(still) rather long, but I'm working on that.

The old FAQs are an exception to my previous statement, as they cover an
eclectic mix of topics, many of which are now outdated, so some of their
contents aren't duplicated in the current FAQ. But OTOH, they're perhaps
of historic value only now. Perhaps it would be better to stick them on
the Web somewhere and link to them from the main FAQ for anyone who's interested?

> I was also wondering something else... a long time ago I remember
> someone saying something about posting the FAQ files with the same
> somethingorother so that you only see them once until you delete them
> from your newsreader when they come back again. I think that this
> would be a better way of posting these, so that everyone doesn't have
> to re-download it each week/month... what do you all think, and how is
> it done?

You're probably talking of posting articles with the same message-id --
the unique number which an NNTP server uses to identify messages (e.g.
this post of yours I'm replying to has the message-id
<36f...@news.vossnet.net>).

Posting the FAQ with the same message-id each time is a nice idea in
theory, but in practice there'd be two problems: (1) you'd confuse the
hell out of Usenet readers which said `what the hey, there's two
messages here with the same message-id! that's impossible!', and (2) you
would need to be deeply, intimately, involved with the internal workings
of your NNTP server in order to override the normal consecutive
message-id numbering.

Far better, I think, to allow each `regular' in the group to set their
filters/killfiles/whatever to mark the FAQ as read whenever it appears,
based on its subject line.

Of course, if there was only one FAQ posted each week (hint hint :-)
there wouldn't be nearly so much of a problem with reading the same
messages over and over again. a.a-a is a fairly small group, and I
really don't think a great wad of regularly posted documentation is necessary.

bye
-- 
mpt
Read my columns in NewsRoom -- http://www.newsroom.co.nz/
Protect your privacy, boycott Intel -- http://www.bigbrotherinside.org/

On Sun, 21 Mar 1999 14:56:54 +1200, Matthew Thomas (mpt...@spamfree.land) wrote:
: Posting the FAQ with the same message-id each time is a nice idea in
: theory, but in practice there'd be two problems: (1) you'd confuse the
: hell out of Usenet readers which said `what the hey, there's two
: messages here with the same message-id! that's impossible!', and (2) you
: would need to be deeply, intimately, involved with the internal workings
: of your NNTP server in order to override the normal consecutive
: message-id numbering.

Point one is valid, though in theory at least the newsreaders should
simply assume that the post has been duplicated somehow and ignore the new
copy. A more significant problem might be that newsservers may make the
same assumption and drop the new post, leading to propagation problems.

However, nothing should be easier than using a custom message-id. Just add
one to the headers, and the NNTP server should see that there's already
one and let it be[1]. See headers of this post for an example.

For the FAQ problem, a more appropriate solution might be to use the
Supersedes header, as in:

Message-Id: <a.a...@my.host.name>
Supersedes: <a.a...@my.host.name>

where the Id in the second header is that of the previous FAQ post. Note
that this won't stop the FAQ from reappearing each week, but it will stop
several unread FAQs from accumulating if you don't read the group for a
while.

[1] I know it works for me, at least when posting with telnet. YMMV.

-- 
<-- Ilmari Karonen --><-- http://www.sci.fi/~iltzu/ --><-- ilt...@sci.fi -->
"I am a student at UC Berkeley, and I am taking this class where we have to
go to a news group and ask an "intelligent question"."  -- a luser in a.a-a

.----- On Sat, 20 Mar 1999 20:32:10 GMT, Martin Atkins posted:
|
|Sorry to post the FAQ messages again so soon, but I was just testing the new
|version of my posting automator that now allows me to select which FAQs I
|post and which I don't each week.
|How often shall I post each one?
|At the moment, I've got the documents list, the MiniFAQ, the Not Looking
|Right guide and the Big FAQ for weekly posting and all the olde FAQ files
|along with Colin's control codes, animations and that Make a start tutorial
|by Daniel Au posting monthly. Is this OK by everyone?
|
|I was also wondering something else... a long time ago I remember someone
|saying something about posting the FAQ files with the same somethingorother
|so that you only see them once until you delete them from your newsreader
|when they come back again. I think that this would be a better way of
|posting these, so that everyone doesn't have to re-download it each
|week/month... what do you all think, and how is it done?
|
'----------------------------

Hmm it appears that it didn't work, and posted the FAQ repeatedly. Sorry
everyone - I'll fix it!

-Martin
 __  __          _   _
|  \/  |__ _ _ _| |_(_)_ _
| |\/| / _` | '_|  _| | ' \   o  Happy Birthday to me...
|_|  |_\__,_|_| _\__|_|_||_| /|\ It`s my birthday you see...
    /_\| |_| |_(_)_ _  ___   / \ On the 25th day of March...
   / _ \  _| / / | ' \(_-<       Happy Birthday to me...
  /_/ \_\__|_\_\_|_||_/__/
  mart.atkins @ bigfoot.com --- REPLY ADDRESS IS ROT13`ed
      http://voices.vossnet.co.uk/a/atkins/ascii.htm
If you are new to the newsgroup, please read our FAQ list - 
            posted weekly and on the web at
    http://vibes.vossnet.co.uk/i/ighaig/ascfaq.htm

Ilmari Karonen wrote:
> For the FAQ problem, a more appropriate solution might be to use the
> Supersedes header, as in:
> 
> Message-Id: <a.a...@my.host.name>
> Supersedes: <a.a...@my.host.name>
> 

Some ISP's are starting to set their news servers to refuse supersedes.
There were some 'attacks' on news groups that combined a supersede with
another control header that made all the news servers that received the
new version of the message send e-mail to the original poster of the
message.

-- 
                    /)-._    Time : Sun Mar 21 21:19:51 1999
                   Y. ' _]
            ,.._   |`--"=    Visitors are expected to complain at the
           /    "-/  `.\     office between the hours of 9 and 11 A.M.
  /)  sk  |   |_     `\|___  daily.
  \:::::::\___/_\__\_______\
- In a Hotel in Athens

.----- On Sun, 21 Mar 1999 14:56:54 +1200, Matthew Thomas posted:
|Martin Atkins wrote:
|> 
|> Sorry to post the FAQ messages again so soon, but I was just testing
|> the new version of my posting automator that now allows me to select
|> which FAQs I post and which I don't each week.
|
|Well, it's not working. The subjects are different, but the body for
|each message is my FAQ in each case -- the tutorials, the mini-FAQ, the
|old FAQ, they all turn out to be my FAQ. (Which is no bad thing, IMNSHO
|... :-)
'---------------------------------
Hehehe... Sorry for posting the same document many times --- I just looked
at the listing in my Outbox and saw the subject lines were OK :o/

.---------------------------------
|> How often shall I post each one?
|> At the moment, I've got the documents list, the MiniFAQ, the Not
|> Looking Right guide and the Big FAQ for weekly posting and all the
|> olde FAQ files along with Colin's control codes, animations and that
|> Make a start tutorial by Daniel Au posting monthly. Is this OK by
|> everyone?
|
|IMNSHO, there actually isn't anything in the other docs which isn't
|covered in the main FAQ. The only drawback to the main FAQ is that it is
|(still) rather long, but I'm working on that.
|
|The old FAQs are an exception to my previous statement, as they cover an
|eclectic mix of topics, many of which are now outdated, so some of their
|contents aren't duplicated in the current FAQ. But OTOH, they're perhaps
|of historic value only now. Perhaps it would be better to stick them on
|the Web somewhere and link to them from the main FAQ for anyone who's interested?
'---------------------------------
That is an excellent idea. I will upload them to my hypermart site when I
get a chance... will be at http://martweb.hypermart.net/aaafaq/

What about if I just post Matthew's FAQ and my 'All you need for ASCII Art'
document? Which fonts people should use and which programs are good are (or
were) very frequently asked questions which I think warrants the separate
posting. Anyone else with opinions?

.---------------------------------
|> I was also wondering something else... a long time ago I remember
|> someone saying something about posting the FAQ files with the same
|> somethingorother so that you only see them once until you delete them
|> from your newsreader when they come back again. I think that this
|> would be a better way of posting these, so that everyone doesn't have
|> to re-download it each week/month... what do you all think, and how is
|> it done?
|
|You're probably talking of posting articles with the same message-id --
|the unique number which an NNTP server uses to identify messages (e.g.
|this post of yours I'm replying to has the message-id
|<36f...@news.vossnet.net>).
|
|Posting the FAQ with the same message-id each time is a nice idea in
|theory, but in practice there'd be two problems: (1) you'd confuse the
|hell out of Usenet readers which said `what the hey, there's two
|messages here with the same message-id! that's impossible!', and (2) you
|would need to be deeply, intimately, involved with the internal workings
|of your NNTP server in order to override the normal consecutive
|message-id numbering.
|
|Far better, I think, to allow each `regular' in the group to set their
|filters/killfiles/whatever to mark the FAQ as read whenever it appears,
|based on its subject line.
|
|Of course, if there was only one FAQ posted each week (hint hint :-)
|there wouldn't be nearly so much of a problem with reading the same
|messages over and over again. a.a-a is a fairly small group, and I
|really don't think a great wad of regularly posted documentation is necessary.
|
\
 > See Ilmari's reply too!
/
'------------------------

Telnetting into my news server each week would be a bit of a chore... but I
assume with an appropriate Perl script (or anything else for that matter)
the process could be automated much more nicely than my current approach (An
ikky Visual Basic program that 'types' the FAQs into Free Agent for me, and
then 'presses' the Send Later button.

If this would cause problems, however, it's probably not worth it. (I'm only
just getting the hang of Perl, anyway <g>)

I'll fix the posting thing before next week.

-Martin
 __  __          _   _
|  \/  |__ _ _ _| |_(_)_ _
| |\/| / _` | '_|  _| | ' \   o  Happy Birthday to me...
|_|  |_\__,_|_| _\__|_|_||_| /|\ It`s my birthday you see...
    /_\| |_| |_(_)_ _  ___   / \ On the 25th day of March...
   / _ \  _| / / | ' \(_-<       Happy Birthday to me...
  /_/ \_\__|_\_\_|_||_/__/
  mart.atkins @ bigfoot.com --- REPLY ADDRESS IS ROT13`ed
      http://voices.vossnet.co.uk/a/atkins/ascii.htm
If you are new to the newsgroup, please read our FAQ list - 
            posted weekly and on the web at
    http://vibes.vossnet.co.uk/i/ighaig/ascfaq.htm