Original Usenet thread from alt.ascii-art, started 8 May 1994.
Alt.ascii-art ratings-leap!
alt.ascii-art
· 6 messages · 8 May 1994 - 16 May 1994
Jorn Barger (jor...@MCS.COM) wrote: : Alt.ascii-art has only appeared in the Arbitron ratings once, last January, : at which time its propagation was a measly 24% as I recall. Finally, : after many delays, a new Arbitrons-list has been posted to news.lists: : 483 84000 618 44% 1658 5818.1 9% 0.04 1.4% alt.ascii-art : We're the 483 best-read group, with an estimated 84,000 readers. (Based : on a sample that showed 618 actual readers.) : 44% of all sites carry the group (up from 24%, as I recall.) : In April there were 1,658 messages totalling 5.8 megabytes. : 9% were crossposted to other groups (e.g. alt.binaries.pictures.ascii) : Out of every 1000 netnews readers, 14 read the group. The theoretical : 'cost-per-reade' of the group is 4 cents. All the more reason to let this newsgroup freely develop. It is doing just great after only appearing in September 1993. The last thing we want is a _MODERATED_ mainstream newsgroup for ascii-art. In view of the Binary files; ANSI stuff which is (hopefully) uuencoded and the wide variety of picture styles the alt. hierarchy is arguably the very best place for ASCII-ART. The mainstream does not take kindly to Binary postings so they get dumped in the ALT. newsgroups anyway. Long Live alt.ascii-art ( UNMODERATED ). :-) :-) Bye,
Colin Douthwaite (Col...@equinox.gen.nz) wrote:
: Jorn Barger (jor...@MCS.COM) wrote:
: : We're the 483 best-read group, with an estimated 84,000 readers. (Based
: : on a sample that showed 618 actual readers.)
: : 44% of all sites carry the group (up from 24%, as I recall.)
: : In April there were 1,658 messages totalling 5.8 megabytes.
: : 9% were crossposted to other groups (e.g. alt.binaries.pictures.ascii)
: : Out of every 1000 netnews readers, 14 read the group. The theoretical
: : 'cost-per-reade' of the group is 4 cents.
: All the more reason to let this newsgroup freely develop. It is doing just
: great after only appearing in September 1993.
: The last thing we want is a _MODERATED_ mainstream newsgroup for ascii-art.
Why the fear of a moderated group? It's not like we're going to have to
submit our pictures to the thought police. I'll be glad to have Scarecrow
moderating this group. Hell, just today I saw the Meriday picture get posted,
that's the tenth time I've seen it in about a month! Not to mention all the
requests for pictures that were posted the previous week or the questions
about viewing vt animation files. I have no problem with Scarecrow replying
to that stuff so I don't have to read it.
: In view of the Binary files; ANSI stuff which is (hopefully) uuencoded and
: the wide variety of picture styles the alt. hierarchy is arguably the very
: best place for ASCII-ART.
Not being funny, but what's your reasoning?
: The mainstream does not take kindly to Binary
: postings so they get dumped in the ALT. newsgroups anyway.
No, the mainstream groups that have nothing to do with ascii art and aren't
expecting to run into any uuencoded files have a problem with them. I doubt
rec.arts.ascii will.
: Long Live alt.ascii-art ( UNMODERATED ). :-) :-)
I dare say it will, but I'll be interested to see the 'ratings' for both
alt.a-a and r.a.a after it's being going for a month or so. I imagine the
ascii artists and would-be ascii artists who can't get the alt groups will
soon push r.a.a up the Newsgroup charts.
Just an opinion, not a flame.
DR J
In article <Col...@equinox.gen.nz>, Col...@equinox.gen.nz (Colin Douthwaite) writes: > All the more reason to let this newsgroup freely develop. It is doing just > great after only appearing in September 1993. This can't be true ... I'd swear I've been reading it for at least two years. Or am I thinking of a similarly-named group that I no longer receive ... ? - Dr. Guz -- * Sean Gugler // __ |) | # # # | # # | # # # | # * 758 Clara Vista Ave // ~T \ /_ __ l_l_l_l_l_l_l_l_l_l_l_l_l * Santa Clara, CA 95050 // [ / )^ (' ) / / ,' I Got My Life * (408) 249-1683 // ~~' / . j' `'` ~~ For A Song
DR J (me9...@brunel.ac.uk) wrote:
: Colin Douthwaite (Col...@equinox.gen.nz) wrote:
: : Jorn Barger (jor...@MCS.COM) wrote:
: : : We're the 483 best-read group, with an estimated 84,000 readers. (Based
: : : on a sample that showed 618 actual readers.)
: : : 44% of all sites carry the group (up from 24%, as I recall.)
: : : In April there were 1,658 messages totalling 5.8 megabytes.
: : : 9% were crossposted to other groups (e.g. alt.binaries.pictures.ascii)
: : : Out of every 1000 netnews readers, 14 read the group. The theoretical
: : : 'cost-per-reade' of the group is 4 cents.
: : All the more reason to let this newsgroup freely develop. It is doing just
: : great after only appearing in September 1993.
: : The last thing we want is a _MODERATED_ mainstream newsgroup for ascii-art.
> Why the fear of a moderated group?
I don't _fear_ a moderated group. I just think we need a moderated
newsgroup for ascii-art like we need a hole in the head.
Moderators are censors. It is purely a matter of degree. Once a
Moderator has been appointed there is no way of removing him from
that position and there is no guarantee that any Moderator will
continue as moderator indefinitely.
Nor is there any guarantee that a Moderator will fulfill his pre-
election manifesto.
DR J> Hell, just today I saw the Meriday picture get posted, that's the
DR J> tenth time I've seen it in about a month! Not to mention all the
DR J> requests for pictures that were posted the previous week or the
DR J> questions about viewing vt animation files. I have no problem
DR J> with Scarecrow replying to that stuff so I don't have to read it.
You may well prefer to have someone screening the postings for you.
How will you ever know what you didn't see ?
Are you suggesting that once you personally, have seen a picture it
should never appear again the newsgroup ?
If that is your reason for favouring moderation - think it through
again !
Surely it would be absurd to suggest that a picture should appear
once only in a newsgroup and thereafter have to be obtained by FTP
from some multi-megabyte archive file ? Who wants to download an
archive file to get a single ascii picture, which may not be there
anyway ?
As for the endless repeats/reposts - they are _not_ repeats to other
users or to those making the requests.
Repeated requests and reposts obviously irritate you whereas they do
not bother me at all. On the contrary - requests sometimes suggest a
new picture, and sometimes, if you actually read the request, you
find the person has actually included a picture or a Sig you have
not seen before.
Why can't you use a Killfile if the sight of requests or certain
subjects or authors upset you so much ? Surely you are not forced
to read anything and everything you see on Internet ? We all have
choices and suitable methods of reading news ( I hope ) ?
CD> In view of the Binary files; ANSI stuff which is (hopefully)
CD> uuencoded and the wide variety of picture styles the alt.
CD> hierarchy is arguably the very best place for ASCII-ART.
DR J> Not being funny, but what's your reasoning?
A very fair question.
My understanding is that the mainstream newsgroup administrators/
moderators and users actively discourage the posting of Binary type
files in mainstream newsgroups, even when uuencoded ( which they
should be ). Even long postings ( 10K plus ) can give rise to
complaint. These things are part of nettiquette and often unwritten.
Usually if you post material of this type in mainstream newsgroups
someone with Net experience will respond and suggest why you should
not make these postings. If you ignore the friendly advice you may
get a direct warning from your local Sysop.
The alt. hierarchy and the alt.binaries.* groups in particular
do carry this type of material and of course none of the alt. groups
are moderated.
I specifically have in mind sectors of ascii-art which will not fit
easily into a moderated ( or even unmoderated ) mainstream group.
Already, in alt.ascii-art's brief history there has been plenty of
user aggravation about the inclusion of:
.vt animations ( containing ansi escape codes )
ansi pictures ( still pictures using the IBM Extended Character Set
128 - 255 )
ansi animations ( IBM extended characters and escape codes )
GIFs
executables and utility programmes
pixellated art
uuencoded material
large postings ( above 10K in length )
I stand to be corrected about all this but I think these types of
postings would probably have to be diverted by a moderator.
Diverted to where do you think ? No prizes for the correct answers !
[ And, just a thought - will you be pleased if a moderator declines
one of _your_ postings ? ]
CD> Long Live alt.ascii-art ( UNMODERATED ). :-) :-)
DR J> I dare say it will, but I'll be interested to see the
DR J> 'ratings' for both alt.a-a and r.a.a after it's being going for a
DR J> month or so. I imagine the ascii artists and would-be ascii artists
DR J> who can't get the alt groups will soon push r.a.a up the Newsgroup
DR J> charts.
I hope r.a.a (MODERATED) does _not_ get going - we don't want all
the stuff the moderated group won't accept dumped in this newsgroup
as though it were a trash heap (which it most certainly is not) -
but that is what we will get if Internet users let it happen.
DR J> Just an opinion, not a flame.
Not taken as a flame.
I respect your opinions and understand your irritations but do not
share them. I have different views on the means of dealing with the
problems of newsgroups and life in cyberspace.
.
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,_|:|_, / ) | |
(Oo / _I_ | LONG LIVE alt.ascii-art |
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\ \||___| | | Free & Unmoderated | |
\ /.:.\-\ | (*) |_ _ _ _ _ _ _ | \^/ |
|.:. /-----\ | _<">_ | `_' `-' `_' `-' `_' `-' `_'| _(#)_ |
|___| oOo | o+o \a/ \0 0/ \a/ (=)
/ |<a.a-a>| 0'\a-a/\/ \/\a-a/`0
|_____\ : / /_^_\ | | /_^_\
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| | | | d|_|b_T____________________________T_d|_|b
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Col...@equinox.gen.nz (Colin Douthwaite) writes: >DR J (me9...@brunel.ac.uk) wrote: >>Colin Douthwaite (Col...@equinox.gen.nz) wrote: >>>The last thing we want is a _MODERATED_ mainstream newsgroup for ascii-art. >>Why the fear of a moderated group? >Moderators are censors. It is purely a matter of degree. Once a >Moderator has been appointed there is no way of removing him from >that position and there is no guarantee that any Moderator will >continue as moderator indefinitely. Read the proposed charter for the new group. Since there is no net.standard way of doing this, moderated groups are encouraged to explictly permit this. I'm not sure about moderator removal, but it does have a provision for moderator absence. In such a case, the authority to appoint a new moderator has been given to the news.announce.newgroups moderator. >>Hell, just today I saw the Meriday picture get posted, that's the >>tenth time I've seen it in about a month! Not to mention all the >>requests for pictures that were posted the previous week or the >>questions about viewing vt animation files. I have no problem >>with Scarecrow replying to that stuff so I don't have to read it. >Surely it would be absurd to suggest that a picture should appear >once only in a newsgroup and thereafter have to be obtained by FTP >from some multi-megabyte archive file ? Who wants to download an >archive file to get a single ascii picture, which may not be there >anyway ? > >As for the endless repeats/reposts - they are _not_ repeats to other >users or to those making the requests. I'd expect the same situation as exists with rec.arts.erotica and alt.sex.stories. The rec group doesn't do repeats, so they are sent to the alt group. I'd expect the same to be true with regard to rec.arts.ascii and alt.ascii-art/alt.binaries.pictures.ascii. >>>In view of the Binary files; ANSI stuff which is (hopefully) >>>uuencoded and the wide variety of picture styles the alt. >>>hierarchy is arguably the very best place for ASCII-ART. >>Not being funny, but what's your reasoning? >My understanding is that the mainstream newsgroup administrators/ >moderators and users actively discourage the posting of Binary type >files in mainstream newsgroups, even when uuencoded ( which they >should be ). Counter example: the entire comp.binaries hierarchy. Okay, so I'm pulling a punch. Uuencoded posts are uncommon for the rec groups, but there are posts larger than the estimated size of uuencoded .ascii posts regularly posted to other rec groups. >The alt. hierarchy and the alt.binaries.* groups in particular >do carry this type of material and of course none of the alt. groups >are moderated. There are moderated alt groups. I know of two examples by name, but they aren't good examples. I know at least one other moderated alt group (I don't count alt.dads-rights), and I'm sure there are more. The "there are no moderated alt groups" was a reason this institution dropped all the alt groups for awhile. >I hope r.a.a (MODERATED) does _not_ get going - we don't want all >the stuff the moderated group won't accept dumped in this newsgroup >as though it were a trash heap (which it most certainly is not) - >but that is what we will get if Internet users let it happen. I really don't see this as a bad thing. It works for other newsgroups and I can see it working for this one. Those who really want to see everything, including repeats and requests, will follow all three groups, and those wishing only to follow one high signal group will follow the mainstream moderated group. The people following the moderated only probably wouldn't be reading the repeats and constantly complaining about requests in the old group. They won't be the ones making new submissions in response to old ones, so you'll be better off without them. -- gbe...@cse.unl.edu (Greg Berigan) Be articulate! Your new patience will not show up immediately.
Colin Douthwaite: > Moderators are censors. It is purely a matter of degree. [...] > You may well prefer to have someone screening the postings for you. > How will you ever know what you didn't see ? Newsgroups are censors. It is purely a matter of degree. How will you ever know what you didn't see? In my innermost spirit, I want to sing love songs to sci.physics.fusion, slaughter the innocents in rec.puzzles.crosswords, deconstruct the subtext of comp.lang.perl, write computer games for alt.atheism, and Make.Money.Fast in news.software.nntp. But you'll never see any of that, because the newsgroups won't allow it. --
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