Re: Alt.ascii-art ratings-leap!

DR J (me9...@brunel.ac.uk) wrote:
: Colin Douthwaite (Col...@equinox.gen.nz) wrote:
: : Jorn Barger (jor...@MCS.COM) wrote:
: : : We're the 483 best-read group, with an estimated 84,000 readers. (Based
: : : on a sample that showed 618 actual readers.)
: : : 44% of all sites carry the group (up from 24%, as I recall.)
: : : In April there were 1,658 messages totalling 5.8 megabytes.
: : : 9% were crossposted to other groups (e.g. alt.binaries.pictures.ascii)
: : : Out of every 1000 netnews readers, 14 read the group.  The theoretical
: : : 'cost-per-reade' of the group is 4 cents.

: : All the more reason to let this newsgroup freely develop. It is doing just
: : great after only appearing in September 1993.
: : The last thing we want is a _MODERATED_ mainstream newsgroup for ascii-art.



> Why the fear of a moderated group?

I don't _fear_ a moderated group. I just think we need a moderated
newsgroup for ascii-art like we need a hole in the head.

Moderators are censors. It is purely a matter of degree. Once a
Moderator has been appointed there is no way of removing him from
that position and there is no guarantee that any Moderator will
continue as moderator indefinitely.

Nor is there any guarantee that a Moderator will fulfill his pre-
election manifesto.


DR J> Hell, just today I saw the Meriday picture get posted, that's the
DR J> tenth time I've seen it in about a month! Not to mention all the
DR J> requests for pictures that were posted the previous week or the
DR J> questions about viewing vt animation files.  I have no problem
DR J> with Scarecrow replying to that stuff so I don't have to read it.

You may well prefer to have someone screening the postings for you.

How will you ever know what you didn't see ?

Are you suggesting that once you personally, have seen a picture it
should never appear again the newsgroup ?

If that is your reason for favouring moderation - think it through
again !

Surely it would be absurd to suggest that a picture should appear
once only in a newsgroup and thereafter have to be obtained by FTP
from some multi-megabyte archive file ?  Who wants to download an
archive file to get a single ascii picture, which may not be there
anyway ?

As for the endless repeats/reposts - they are _not_ repeats to other
users or to those making the requests.

Repeated requests and reposts obviously irritate you whereas they do
not bother me at all. On the contrary - requests sometimes suggest a
new picture, and sometimes, if you actually read the request, you
find the person has actually included a picture or a Sig you have
not seen before.

Why can't you use a Killfile if the sight of requests or certain
subjects or authors upset you so much ?  Surely you are not forced
to read anything and everything you see on Internet ?  We all have
choices and suitable methods of reading news ( I hope ) ?


CD> In view of the Binary files; ANSI stuff which is (hopefully)
CD> uuencoded and the wide variety of picture styles the alt.
CD> hierarchy is arguably the very best place for ASCII-ART.


DR J> Not being funny, but what's your reasoning?


A very fair question.

My understanding is that the mainstream newsgroup administrators/
moderators and users actively discourage the posting of Binary type
files in mainstream newsgroups, even when uuencoded ( which they
should be ). Even long postings ( 10K plus ) can give rise to
complaint. These things are part of nettiquette and often unwritten.

Usually if you post material of this type in mainstream newsgroups
someone with Net experience will respond and suggest why you should
not make these postings. If you ignore the friendly advice you may
get a direct warning from your local Sysop.

The alt. hierarchy and the alt.binaries.* groups in particular
do carry this type of material and of course none of the alt. groups
are moderated.


I specifically have in mind sectors of ascii-art which will not fit
easily into a moderated ( or even unmoderated ) mainstream group.
Already, in alt.ascii-art's brief history there has been plenty of
user aggravation about the inclusion of:

.vt animations ( containing ansi escape codes )
ansi pictures  ( still pictures using the IBM Extended Character Set
                 128 - 255 )
ansi animations ( IBM extended characters and escape codes )
GIFs
executables and utility programmes
pixellated art
uuencoded material
large postings ( above 10K in length )


I stand to be corrected about all this but I think these types of
postings would probably have to be diverted by a moderator.
Diverted to where do you think ?  No prizes for the correct answers !

[ And, just a thought - will you be pleased if a moderator declines
  one of _your_ postings ? ]


CD> Long Live alt.ascii-art ( UNMODERATED ).   :-) :-)

DR J> I dare say it will, but I'll be interested to see the
DR J> 'ratings' for both alt.a-a and r.a.a after it's being going for a
DR J> month or so. I imagine the ascii artists and would-be ascii artists
DR J> who can't get the alt groups will soon push r.a.a up the Newsgroup
DR J> charts.

I hope r.a.a (MODERATED) does _not_ get going - we don't want all
the stuff the moderated group won't accept dumped in this newsgroup
as though it were a trash heap (which it most certainly is not) -
but that is what we will get if Internet users let it happen.


DR J> Just an opinion, not a flame.

Not taken as a flame.

I respect your opinions and understand your irritations but do not
share them. I have different views on the means of dealing with the
problems of newsgroups and life in cyberspace.

   .
  /:\
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  |:|                              *_   _   _   _   _   _   _   *
  |:|      __                      | `_' `-' `_' `-' `_' `-' `_'|
,_|:|_,   /  )                     |                            |
  (Oo    / _I_                     |  LONG LIVE  alt.ascii-art  |
   +\ \  || __|            ^       |                            |       ^
      \ \||___|            |       |     Free & Unmoderated     |       |
        \ /.:.\-\          |  (*)  |_   _   _   _   _   _   _   |  \^/  |
         |.:. /-----\      | _<">_ | `_' `-' `_' `-' `_' `-' `_'| _(#)_ |
         |___|  oOo  |    o+o \a/ \0                            0/ \a/ (=)
         /   |<a.a-a>|     0'\a-a/\/                            \/\a-a/`0
        |_____\  :  /        /_^_\ |                            | /_^_\
         | |  \ \:/          || || |                            | || ||
         | |   | |           d|_|b_T____________________________T_d|_|b
         \ /   | \___              /                           /
         / |   \_____\         /                              /
         `-'               /                                 /
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