Original Usenet thread from alt.ascii-art, started 28 Jun 2003.
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karl marx and the communist manifesto
alt.ascii-art
· 16 messages · 28 Jun 2003 - 1 Jul 2003
this one's a bit large so you might be better off printing it... to fit it on one screen you usually need font size 3 or 4 on a very high-res monitor, and then it's unreadable. Yes, it's a portrait of karl marx, in the communist manifesto. http://slowriot.ed-debating.org.uk/karl_marx.txt
>-----Original Message----- >From: rai...@hotmail.com (storm) >[mailto:rai...@hotmail.com] >Posted At: 28 June 2003 04:05 >Posted To: ascii-art >Conversation: karl marx and the communist manifesto >Subject: karl marx and the communist manifesto > > >this one's a bit large so you might be better off printing >it... to fit it on one screen you usually need font size 3 or >4 on a very high-res monitor, and then it's unreadable. > >Yes, it's a portrait of karl marx, in the communist manifesto. > >http://slowriot.ed-debating.org.uk/karl_marx.txt This is brilliant. I take it this is done by some kind of Program ? -- Graeme Porter -^-_ _ / [_][_]_:_ Proud owner of a 1978 /| _||_ v Pearl Fiberglass Shell kit | / \ | -=/=\\____//=\=jaa "I married Miss right, I just didn't know her first name was 'Always'" http://www.tsd-ltd.demon.co.uk -- Anonymous --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.489 / Virus Database: 288 - Release Date: 10/06/2003
In message <545...@proliant.tsd-ltd.demon.co.uk> Graeme Porter <Gra...@tsd-ltd.demon.co.uk> wrote: >>-----Original Message----- >>From: rai...@hotmail.com (storm) >>[mailto:rai...@hotmail.com] >>Posted At: 28 June 2003 04:05 >>Posted To: ascii-art >>Conversation: karl marx and the communist manifesto >>Subject: karl marx and the communist manifesto >> >> >>this one's a bit large so you might be better off printing >>it... to fit it on one screen you usually need font size 3 or >>4 on a very high-res monitor, and then it's unreadable. >> >>Yes, it's a portrait of karl marx, in the communist manifesto. I'll print it out and use it for target practice. >>http://slowriot.ed-debating.org.uk/karl_marx.txt > >This is brilliant. I take it this is done by some kind of >Program ? Why are you superseding your own post, claiming brilliance, and then asking if the pic was done by a program? I found your pic to be a real yawner. Who gives a crap about Marx and his assinine political theories? Communism sucks, d00d!
_.--- Dewight Fry spoke in alt.ascii-art --------._ > Who gives a crap about Marx and > his assinine political theories? Communism sucks, d00d! d00d your are showing your ignorance by stating that people should ignore what they think "sucks". The whole idea is a simple and old one: Keep your friends close and your enemies closer. Or in the words of Marilyn Manson: You can not sedate all the things you hate. '---...____ Faux_Pseudo ________________...---~~~ -- ICQ=66618055 : http://asciipr0n.com/fp UPDATED=05/06 YIM=faux_pseudo : Rev: and_all_that_could_have_been/06-The_Wretched.mp3 The truth from : Now: nd/his_12_greatest_hits/03_Coldwater_Morning.mp3 which you run : Fwd: -_industrial_nation_-_06_-_that's_what_i_get.mp3
On Sun, 29 Jun 2003 04:36:43 GMT, Faux_Pseudo <Fau...@yahoo.comERCIAL> tried to confuse everyone with this message: > _.--- Dewight Fry spoke in alt.ascii-art --------._ >> Who gives a crap about Marx and >> his assinine political theories? Communism sucks, d00d! > >d00d your are showing your ignorance by stating that people should >ignore what they think "sucks". > Yes, commies shouldn't be ignored. They must be killed on sight in a most murderous way you can think of! -- |___o. GO ,--Timofei Shatrov aka Grue (grue -> mail.ru)---------. | \/ `\o URAL | WWW: http://grue3.tripod.com | | ) GREAT |Now playing: ADOM, CM4, Quake, Microprose MTG | | /\ PERM '----<thou shalt obey 4-line rule!!!>------------[4*72]
Timofei Shatrov said something: > On Sun, 29 Jun 2003 04:36:43 GMT, Faux_Pseudo <Fau...@yahoo.comERCIAL> tried > to confuse everyone with this message: > >> _.--- Dewight Fry spoke in alt.ascii-art --------._ >>> Who gives a crap about Marx and >>> his assinine political theories? Communism sucks, d00d! >> >>d00d your are showing your ignorance by stating that people should >>ignore what they think "sucks". >> > > Yes, commies shouldn't be ignored. They must be killed on sight in a most > murderous way you can think of! what about the pinko-lefty-commie-faggot-nigger-feminazi-liberal-jews? -- wh33, y1p33 3tc. "If sharing a thing in no way diminishes it, it is not rightly owned if it is not shared." -St. Augustine
On 28 Jun 2003, Dewight Fry wrote
: Communism sucks, d00d!
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--
) ( Jaap Karssenberg || Pardus [Larus]
: : http://pardus-larus.student.utwente.nl/~pardus
) \ / (
",.*'*.," " Interfaces win users, not internals. "
On 2003-06-29, Jaap Karssenberg <j.g...@student.utwente.nl> wrote: > $ $ > $ $ > $ $ > $$$$$$$$$ $ $ > FLAME WAR ! $$$$$$$$$$$$$ > $$$$$$$$$$$$$ $ $ > $$$$$$$$$$$$$ > $$$$$$$$$$$$$ $ $ > $$$$$$$$$$$$$ > $$$$$$$$$$$$$ $ $ $ > $$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $ > $$$$$$$$$$ $ $ $ $ > $$$$$$ $ $ > $$ $ $ $ $ > $ $ > $ $ $ $ $ > $ $ $ $ > $ $ $ $ $ > $ $ $ $ > $$$$ $ $ $ $ $ > $$$$$$$ $ $ $ $ > $$$$$$$$ $ $ $ $ > $$$$$$$$ $ $ $ > $$$$$$$$ $ $ $ $ > $$$$$$$$ $ $ $ $ > `$$$$$$ $ $ $ $ > $$ ` > Nice. It's kind of ironic that the pic is made out of $ signs. :) OA: (clown) /\ oo `) -- Mark Hill <mar...@yahoo.co.uk> Besides, I think Slackware sounds better than 'Microsoft,' don't you? -- Patrick Volkerding
Iain D Broadfoot <ibr...@cis.strath.ac.uk> wrote in news:0s2...@this.is.a.lie.com: > Timofei Shatrov said something: >> On Sun, 29 Jun 2003 04:36:43 GMT, Faux_Pseudo >> <Fau...@yahoo.comERCIAL> tried to confuse everyone with this >> message: >> >>> _.--- Dewight Fry spoke in alt.ascii-art --------._ >>>> Who gives a crap about Marx and >>>> his assinine political theories? Communism sucks, d00d! >>> >>>d00d your are showing your ignorance by stating that people should >>>ignore what they think "sucks". >>> >> >> Yes, commies shouldn't be ignored. They must be killed on sight in a >> most murderous way you can think of! > > what about the pinko-lefty-commie-faggot-nigger-feminazi-liberal-jews? ;) Hey does the mention of "nazi" invoke the Goodwin law, or is feminazi not close enough to nazi? [I realise you were being sarcastic :)] Anyway it is an excellent ASCII picture of an historical figure, exposure of some intolerant ignorant misanthropes aside. -- ABCGi http://users.bigpond.net.au/abcgi "Life is mostly froth and bubble, Two things stand like stone, Kindness in another's trouble, And courage in your own." - ALG
Dewight Fry wrote in message <6t5...@ac.ce.13.16.cabalnet.net>... >In message ><545...@proliant.tsd-ltd.demon.co.uk> >Graeme Porter <Gra...@tsd-ltd.demon.co.uk> wrote: > >>>-----Original Message----- >>>From: rai...@hotmail.com (storm) >>>[mailto:rai...@hotmail.com] >>>Posted At: 28 June 2003 04:05 >>>Posted To: ascii-art >>>Conversation: karl marx and the communist manifesto >>>Subject: karl marx and the communist manifesto >>> >>> >>>this one's a bit large so you might be better off printing >>>it... to fit it on one screen you usually need font size 3 or >>>4 on a very high-res monitor, and then it's unreadable. >>> >>>Yes, it's a portrait of karl marx, in the communist manifesto. > >I'll print it out and use it for target practice. So you're saying that you will kill someone because of what they believe in ? Therefore, equally, someone should be able to kill you because of what you believe in. It's only fair. >>>http://slowriot.ed-debating.org.uk/karl_marx.txt >> >>This is brilliant. I take it this is done by some kind of >>Program ? > >Why are you superseding your own post, claiming brilliance, and then >asking if the pic was done by a program? 1) I'm not superseding my own post. I don't have a Hotmail address. 2) It is (in my opinion) brilliant. 3) Why shouldn't I ask? It wasn't my picture. >I found your pic to be a real yawner. Who gives a crap about Marx and >his assinine political theories? Communism sucks, d00d! It wasn't my picture. For all I care, it could be a portrait of George Washington made up of the words in the US Constitution. I'm not a Marxist - I just appreciate good art (which this quite obviously is). You're forgetting what Communism is all about - the basic principle was that all mankind was created equal, so everyone should have equal wealth and property. The problem with Communism was the greed of certain people. Communism was good on paper, but in practise it never worked. As I said, I'm not a Marxist (I prefer the semi-democratic state that I live in). But I like the art form. The composition gives the feel that the words he wrote represented himself and his viewpoints completely - you can tell so much about the man himself by his written word that you could tell what he looked like. I would like to be able to create portraits of other people using their written word; people like Arthur C. Clark, or Winston Churchill, or Martin Luther King. That's why I was asking how it was done. -- Graeme Porter -^-_ _ / [_][_]_:_ Proud owner of a 1978 /| _||_ v Pearl Fiberglass Shell kit | / \ | -=/=\\____//=\=jaa "I married Miss right, I just didn't know her first name was 'Always'" -- Anonymous
"Anonymous" <gue...@guest.net> writes: > Dewight Fry wrote in message <6t5...@ac.ce.13.16.cabalnet.net>... > > >I found your pic to be a real yawner. Who gives a crap about Marx and > >his assinine political theories? Communism sucks, d00d! > > I'm not a Marxist - I just appreciate good art (which this quite > obviously is). Anyway an interesting picture and technique. > You're forgetting what Communism is all about - the basic principle was > that all mankind was created equal, so everyone should have equal > wealth and property. Which runs us into the problem that people are not created equal (ever compared an genius and an retard?) and also people work different amounts (hardworking vs lazy). So they neither can achieve by themselves, nor do deserve equal wealth or property. > The problem with Communism was the greed of certain people. It that were the only problem, it would have worked. Try some of the real problems that killed it of: 1. Lenin deliberately refused to follow the rules layed out by Marx, because he was not prepared to wait (until after his lifetime). Marx _clearly_ states, that for communism to work the way he envisioned it, one _first_ must have an capitalist system that has run its course. "run its course" in Marxian terms means, when it has grown so far that no further growth is possible (no one wants to buy more), so competition only results in pricecutting (and less pay, so less buying -> permanent recession) and mergers that eliminate competition (so only monopolist, then price gouging). One could argue, that the west has reached that state in the last 30 years. But Lenin tried to step directly from an agrarian feudal society of scarcity to communism. Marx would have predicted Lenins faillure. 2. Forgetting or not knowing the importance of motivation. Even when production exceeds demand, and so work time drops, there is still need for some to go working. They need an reason to spend their time this way, instead of doing nothing, like all the rest of the people. Today we know from modern biology, that the only known reliable motivator is to reward people with something they would have not be able to get without the work. That seems to be either more pay (and so more wealth, end of the "equal wealth" bit) or political power to push others around (but that gives political power fights, suppression, suffering). Result of this was the "we pretend to work and they pretend to pay us" Problem. Too little being produced, salaries which you can't buy stoff with, because the shelves are empty. Demotivation. Evenless stuff on the shelves. Gave an vicious circle that killed the economy. 3. Not knowing about information flow problems The actual Sovietunion was based on central planning. This may strictly not be Marx, but annother Lenin missdesign. Unfortunately it doesn't work either. Planning is never precise enough. So one needs to watch the outcome and correct the plans (no plan is even worse, but ridgid plans are also bad). The Soviet 5 year plans were definitely not flexible enough. Even worse, an central system makes such feedback unreliable. Then add above part about political power and all the planning positions get quickly filled with those that want to reward themselves (and because stuff is scarse they have an desire to get more than average). Then come the political battles. And that kills as ist first victim any form of reliable information flow, so the system loses its ability to correct itsself. > Communism was good on paper, but in practise it never worked. It was an not even a particularly good target. And it was badly implemented. And it could not work, so far we know today. Some of this stuff Marx simply could not have known (motivational biology and information frow analysis). > As I said, I'm not a Marxist (I prefer the semi-democratic state that I > live in). But I like the art form. Today we know that preventing poverty (through todays social security) and all its negative side effects is about the best that is attainable. Although the highly bureaucratic implementations in use today are also unnecessarily complex and as result of this unreliable. And the costcutters are trying their best do destroy even this. -- Neil Franklin, nei...@franklin.ch.remove http://neil.franklin.ch/ Hacker, Unix Guru, El Eng HTL/BSc, Programmer, Archer, Blacksmith - hardware runs the world, software controls the hardware code generates the software, have you coded today?
On Mon, 30 Jun 2003, Neil Franklin wrote: > > "Anonymous" <gue...@guest.net> writes: > > Dewight Fry wrote in message <6t5...@ac.ce.13.16.cabalnet.net>... > > > > >I found your pic to be a real yawner. Who gives a crap about Marx and > > >his assinine political theories? Communism sucks, d00d! > > > > I'm not a Marxist - I just appreciate good art (which this quite > > obviously is). > > Anyway an interesting picture and technique. I wasn't too impressed, either, actually. If the words didn't contain rand ombr eakss o t hattheycouldloo klikethepicture, but instead formed a readable message, *that* would be impressive and interesting. I sure *hope* the artist used a program, since it would be a most boring task to sit down and type all that out. :) Also it would've been much more interesting to me, even with the random wordbreaks, if the picture had fit on a single page and still been readable. You have to go down to, like, 3- or 4-point fonts before the picture is narrow enough to print out. :( > > You're forgetting what Communism is all about - the basic principle was > > that all mankind was created equal, so everyone should have equal > > wealth and property. > > Which runs us into the problem that people are not created equal (ever > compared an genius and an retard?) and also people work different > amounts (hardworking vs lazy). So they neither can achieve by themselves, > nor do deserve equal wealth or property. AIUI Marx didn't much care whether the proletariat "deserved" equality; he just wanted them to have it. > 1. Lenin deliberately refused to follow the rules layed out by Marx, > because he was not prepared to wait (until after his lifetime). True dat. > 2. Forgetting or not knowing the importance of motivation. > Today we know from modern biology, that the only known reliable > motivator is to reward people with something they would have not be > able to get without the work. That is (a) nothing to do with biology; (b) common sense; and (c) the definition of "reward." > That seems to be either more pay (and > so more wealth, end of the "equal wealth" bit) or political power to > push others around (but that gives political power fights, > suppression, suffering). The *very* little bit of proto-Marxist stuff I've read suggests that Marx considered the joy of work to be another motivator. Don't tell me you've never enjoyed your work! It must have seemed to Marx that there *were* good people out there who would make chairs and potatoes and whatnot for very little compensation, simply because they liked to do it. Unfortunately, by Lenin's time factories had become more commonplace, and fewer people wanted to make automobiles and bolts and mass-produced textiles - they all wanted to raise potatoes instead! > Result of this was the "we pretend to work and they pretend to pay us" > Problem. Too little being produced, salaries which you can't buy stoff > with, because the shelves are empty. Demotivation. Evenless stuff on > the shelves. Gave an vicious circle that killed the economy. A very cogent explanation. > 3. Not knowing about information flow problems > > The actual Sovietunion was based on central planning. This may > strictly not be Marx, but annother Lenin missdesign. Or Stalin misdesign, perhaps. I dunno. Again, calling it an "information flow problem" makes it sound like it's some post-modern phenomenon that Stalin couldn't possibly have known about. It wasn't. The Soviet planners just deluded themselves into thinking that the factories were producing things, and without good information they couldn't possibly know that. In fact, as I understand it it was painfully obvious that the five-year plans weren't doing much for the potatoes, although the heavy industries were doing better. > > Communism was good on paper, but in practise it never worked. > > It was an not even a particularly good target. And it was badly > implemented. And it could not work, so far we know today. Some of > this stuff Marx simply could not have known (motivational biology > and information flow analysis). Just like he couldn't have known that to sit on an electric stovetop would burn his bottom, because electric stovetops hadn't been invented yet. :) -Arthur
_.--- Neil Franklin spoke in alt.ascii-art --------._ > Marx _clearly_ states, that for communism to work the way he envisioned > it, one _first_ must have an capitalist system that has run its course. > "run its course" [...] (no one wants to buy more), > One could argue, that the west has reached that state in the last 30 > years. Sony[0] and Maybelline[1] would say that we haven't even come close yet. I think Ebay might have a say in that matter as well. Obascii: .. /U% /.U% Lipstick | .U% | .U% | .U% | .U% .|_.U%. | .-uO% | .-uO% | .-uO% | .-uO% | .-uO% | .-uO% | .-uO% H:F_P:H So who is going to do the rest of the makeup kit? [0] Maker of the Sony Playstation [1] Someone who makes more money each year than Sony's playstation devision. -- ICQ=66618055 : http://asciipr0n.com/fp UPDATED=05/06 YIM=faux_pseudo : Rev: 2/tool/opiate_live/07_-_jerk-off.mp3 Never forget your: Now: 2/tool/laturalus/12_-_triad.mp3 enemies names : Fwd: /moterhead/pms/03-brave_new_world-pms.mp3
On 2003-06-30, Faux_Pseudo <Fau...@yahoo.comERCIAL> wrote: > > Obascii: > .. > /U% > /.U% Lipstick > | .U% > | .U% > | .U% > | .U% > .|_.U%. > | .-uO% > | .-uO% > | .-uO% > | .-uO% > | .-uO% > | .-uO% > | .-uO% > H:F_P:H > > So who is going to do the rest of the makeup kit? .^: | | |L| |I| |P| |L| |I| |N| |E| |R| |_| |_| .ix x+vvv xxxvvvx ======= | | | L | | I | | P | | L | | I | | N | | E | | R | | | | P | | E | | N | | C | | I | | L | | | |=====| | | |=====| .ix x+vvv xxxvvvx ======= | vvv| | vvv| | vvv| | vvv| | vvv| | vvv| | vvv| | vvv| | vvv| | vvv| | vvv| | vvv| | vvv| |=====| | | |=====| Diddles most welcome. -- Mark Hill <mar...@yahoo.co.uk>
On 1 Jul 2003 04:06:41 GMT, Mark Hill <mar...@yahoo.co.uk> tried to confuse everyone with this message: > .ix > x+vvv > xxxvvvx > ======= > | vvv| > | vvv| > | vvv| > | vvv| > | vvv| > | vvv| > | vvv| > | vvv| > | vvv| > | vvv| > | vvv| > | vvv| > | vvv| > |=====| > | | > |=====| > > I hope Tran doesn't see this. -- ,"""R.I.P"""". ,--Timofei Shatrov aka Grue (grue -> mail.ru)---------. ; ... .. .. ; | WWW: http://grue3.tripod.com | ; : :.' .' ; |Now playing: ADOM, CM4, Quake, Microprose MTG | ; : :.' '.. ; '----<thou shalt obey 4-line rule!!!>------------[4*72]
On 2003-07-01, Timofei Shatrov <gru...@mail.ru> wrote: > > I hope Tran doesn't see this. lol. :) -- Mark Hill <mar...@yahoo.co.uk>
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