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Original Usenet thread from alt.ascii-art, started 31 Dec 2001.
 _   _                     _        _             _     _           
| | | |___  ___ _ __   ___| |_     / \   _ __ ___| |__ (_)_   _____ 
| | | / __|/ _ \ '_ \ / _ \ __|   / _ \ | '__/ __| '_ \| \ \ / / _ \
| |_| \__ \  __/ | | |  __/ |_   / ___ \| | | (__| | | | |\ V /  __/
 \___/|___/\___|_| |_|\___|\__| /_/   \_\_|  \___|_| |_|_| \_/ \___|
new idea for jave: layers

new idea for jave: layers

alt.ascii-art · 6 messages · 31 Dec 2001 - 4 Jan 2002
"Peter \"lastfuture\" Marquardt" <lastfuture@lastfuture.de> ASCII art 31 Dec 2001 00:02 · permalink · report
,-----------------------------------------------------------.
|                                                           |
| SOLIDS:                                                   |
|           .           .           .           .           |
| standard  | mix       | normal    | multiply  | screen    |
|-----------+-----------+-----------+-----------+-----------|
|           |           |           |           | 888888888 |
|  88888    |  88888    |  88888    |  :::::    | 8:::::888 |
|  88.:::.  |  88888:.  |  88P:::.  |  ::d88:.  | 8::'  :Y8 |
|  88:::::  |  88888::  |  88:::::  |  ::888::  | 8::   ::8 |
|  88:::::  |  88888::  |  88:::::  |  ::888::  | 8::   ::8 |
|    ':::'  |    ':::'  |    `:::'  |    ':::'  | 888b:::d8 |
|           |           |           |           | 888888888 |
|           |           |           |           |           |
|-----------------------+-----------------------------------|
|                       |                                   |
| LINES:                | SOLID SPACES:                     |
|           .           |                       .           |
| normal    | mix       | normal                | mix       |
|-----------+-----------+-----------------------+-----------|
|           |           |           |           |           |
|  +---+    |  +---+    |  88888    |  +---+    |  +---+    |
|  | ,---.  |  | ,-+-.  |  8 d888p  |  | ,---.  |  | ,-+-.  |
|  | | | |  |  | | | |  |  8 8   8  |  | |   |  |  | |   |  |
|  +-|-+ |  |  +-+-+ |  |  888   8  |  +-|   |  |  +-+   |  |
|    `---'  |    `---'  |    Y888P  |    `---'  |    `---'  |
|           |           |           |           |           |
|           |           |           |           |           |
|===========================================================|
|                   |                    |                  |
|   88888   .:::.   |    +---+   ,---.   |  d888p    ,---.  |
|   88888   :::::   |    |   |   |   |   |  8:::8    |:::|  |
|   88888   :::::   |    |   |   |   |   |  8:::8    |:::|  |
|   88888   ':::'   |    +---+   `---'   |  Y888P    `---'  |
|                   |                    |                  |
| layer 1   layer 2 |  layer 1   layer 2 | : -  solid space |
| (bottom)  (top)   |  (bottom)  (top)   |                  |
|                   |                    |                  |
`-----------------------------------------------------------'

-- 
   '  +   `   . ,-------------.  +      .   `     .     *     '   \/
 *    . __  .  ( alt.ascii-art ) .        .    ,-----------. `   (oO)
-._'"- ( ,. _.' `-------------'        '      ( you said it )_,'  vv .
    `"  `-`       .     '    *      `       +  `-----------'    . JL

"Peter \"lastfuture\" Marquardt" <lastfuture@lastfuture.de> ASCII art 31 Dec 2001 00:37 · permalink · report
layers would have quite a few advantages:

they can be edited seperately so if you need to do a freehand that is
below another object or if you have to move an object covered by
another one you can do that easily

in animations objects move frequently (that's the use of an animation
heheh) and when two objects cover each other you wouldn't need to
redraw them once they move away from each other again

for cartoons or cartoon animations you could actually have 3 layers...
a front objects layer (cars, tables) a character layer and a
background layer.. if you animated the character the other layers
wouldn't be affected

i got the idea of solid spaces when copy-pasting a hollow object over
a solid object, however the hollow object should have actually been
solid white. because they had curved outlines it looked ugly but when
switching the selection mode to "foreground" all the chars of the
solid object within the hollow one were still there

solid spaces are another very useful feature for layers because if we
take our 3-layer cartoon scene you could animate the character without
reediting the frames although in the foreground there is an object
with a solid white surface where the character would be seen through
otherwise

can you handle that markus? not now but in a future version (but
preferrably as soon as possible)

-- 
   '  +   `   . ,-------------.  +      .   `     .     *     '   \/
 *    . __  .  ( alt.ascii-art ) .        .    ,-----------. `   (oO)
-._'"- ( ,. _.' `-------------'        '      ( you said it )_,'  vv .
    `"  `-`       .     '    *      `       +  `-----------'    . JL

bug <bug...@akw.pl> 31 Dec 2001 11:56 · permalink · report
U�ytkownik "Peter "lastfuture" Marquardt" <las...@lastfuture.de>
napisa� w wiadomo�ci news:jJ8vPP1CGhYmJ0VRUnwdQ5g6x+=a...@4ax.com...

> |                       |                                   |
> | LINES:                | SOLID SPACES:                     |
> |           .           |                       .           |
> | normal    | mix       | normal                | mix       |
> |-----------+-----------+-----------------------+-----------|
> |           |           |           |           |           |
> |  +---+    |  +---+    |  88888 (1)|  +---+    |  +---+    |
> |  | ,---.  |  | ,-+-.  |  8 d888b  |  | ,---.  |  | ,-+-.  |
> |  | | | |  |  | | | |  |  8 8   8  |  | |   |  |  | |   |  |
> |  +-|-+ |  |  +-+-+ |  |  888   8  |  +-|   |  |  +-+   |  |
> |    `---'  |    `---'  |    T888P  |    `---'  |    `---'  |
> |           |           |           |           |           |
> |           |           |           |           |           |
> |===========================================================|
> |                   |                    |      (2)         |
> |   88888   .:::.   |    +---+   ,---.   |  d888b    ,---.  |
> |   88888   :::::   |    |   |   |   |   |  8:::8    |:::|  |
> |   88888   :::::   |    |   |   |   |   |  8:::8    |:::|  |
> |   88888   ':::'   |    +---+   `---'   |  T888P    `---'  |
> |                   |                    |                  |
> | layer 1   layer 2 |  layer 1   layer 2 | : -  solid space |
> | (bottom)  (top)   |  (bottom)  (top)   |                  |
> |                   |                    |                  |
> `-----------------------------------------------------------'

Don't know am I supposed to do that but I think that those two
objects (1) and (2) are looking now a bit better...



Best regards/Pozdrowienia,

Blazej [bug]
-- 
Blazej Kozlowski [bug] - "Isc zbyt daleko nie jest 
bug...@akw.pl GG:1093730 -  lepsze niz nie dojsc dosc
_([]:] +48 608-093-718 -  daleko."
View in Lucida Console -                /Konfucjusz

Hi Peter,

You are not the first one who wanted to persuade me to add layer support
to JavE. In fact I use layers very often when doing pixel imaging and I
know how powerful this technique is. For Ascii-Art it would mean
something new that has never been here before, and - as you already
stated - for ascii animations it was priceless.

> can you handle that markus? not now but in a future version (but
> preferrably as soon as possible)

I am pretty sure I am able to implement it - but as far as I can see it
would cost me a lot of time. Supporting layers would mean modifications
in very complex parts of JavE - display engine, crash recovery,
jmov-to-editor interaction, selection feature, etc. etc. Also it would
imply lots of other stuff: a new file format, a well designed user
interface to manage the layers and work with them, etc.
At this point when looking at the design and source code of JavE I think
it would be a good idea to write a completly new JavE - starting from
zero with only reusing the agorithms from Jav3.

Unfortunately I do not have the time (or money) to do that. I have to
concentrate on writing my dissertation instead. So I will continue
dreaming of this great feature and rather concentrate on fixing bugs,
making improvements and adding minor features.

obascii: slightly enhanced freehand painting in future version:
                                            ,..
    __......._                            /'
.--'          `-.     before            /'
                 '`..                 ,'
                     '-..__        _,'      ,..
    __......._             ''''''''       ,'
.--'          `-.                       ,'
       after     ``..                 ,'
                     `-..__        _,'
                           `'''''''

About solid spaces: There already is something like that in JavE: In
most situations Shift+Space will provide a solid space. This works e.g.
in the brush tool.

Markus
--
 \-/         http://www.jave.de    O_< Get JavE now!    \-/
J|a|v|E                           /|                   J|a|v|E
 /-\      Ascii-Art for eyeryone  / \   - for free!     /-\

"Peter \"lastfuture\" Marquardt" <lastfuture@lastfuture.de> ASCII art 4 Jan 2002 00:10 · permalink · report
On Mon, 31 Dec 2001 12:56:03 +0100, "bug" <bug...@akw.pl> wrote:

>U?ytkownik "Peter "lastfuture" Marquardt" <las...@lastfuture.de>
>napisa? w wiadomo?ci news:jJ8vPP1CGhYmJ0VRUnwdQ5g6x+=a...@4ax.com...
>
>> |                       |                                   |
>> | LINES:                | SOLID SPACES:                     |
>> |           .           |                       .           |
>> | normal    | mix       | normal                | mix       |
>> |-----------+-----------+-----------------------+-----------|
>> |           |           |           |           |           |
>> |  +---+    |  +---+    |  88888 (1)|  +---+    |  +---+    |
>> |  | ,---.  |  | ,-+-.  |  8 d888b  |  | ,---.  |  | ,-+-.  |
>> |  | | | |  |  | | | |  |  8 8   8  |  | |   |  |  | |   |  |
>> |  +-|-+ |  |  +-+-+ |  |  888   8  |  +-|   |  |  +-+   |  |
>> |    `---'  |    `---'  |    T888P  |    `---'  |    `---'  |
>> |           |           |           |           |           |
>> |           |           |           |           |           |
>> |===========================================================|
>> |                   |                    |      (2)         |
>> |   88888   .:::.   |    +---+   ,---.   |  d888b    ,---.  |
>> |   88888   :::::   |    |   |   |   |   |  8:::8    |:::|  |
>> |   88888   :::::   |    |   |   |   |   |  8:::8    |:::|  |
>> |   88888   ':::'   |    +---+   `---'   |  T888P    `---'  |
>> |                   |                    |                  |
>> | layer 1   layer 2 |  layer 1   layer 2 | : -  solid space |
>> | (bottom)  (top)   |  (bottom)  (top)   |                  |
>> |                   |                    |                  |
>> `-----------------------------------------------------------'
>
>Don't know am I supposed to do that but I think that those two
>objects (1) and (2) are looking now a bit better...
>

hm i don't stop you from diddling :) it looks good now.. i just made
it in fixedsys and didn't care for other fonts (quite egoistic i am :)

-- 
   '  +   `   . ,-------------.  +      .   `     .     *     '   \/
 *    . __  .  ( alt.ascii-art ) .        .    ,-----------. `   (oO)
-._'"- ( ,. _.' `-------------'        '      ( you said it )_,'  vv .
    `"  `-`       .     '    *      `       +  `-----------'    . JL

bug <bug...@akw.pl> 4 Jan 2002 15:18 · permalink · report
U�ytkownik "Peter "lastfuture" Marquardt" <las...@lastfuture.de>
napisa� w wiadomo�ci news:u=I0P...@4ax.com...

Hey.

> >Don't know am I supposed to do that but I think that those two
> >objects (1) and (2) are looking now a bit better...
> >
>
> hm i don't stop you from diddling :) it looks good now.. i just made
> it in fixedsys and didn't care for other fonts (quite egoistic i am :)

We ale are a little egoistic :)

Best regards/Pozdrowienia,

Blazej [bug]
-- 
Blazej Kozlowski [bug] - "Jedyna roznica miedzy mna
bug...@akw.pl GG:1093730 -  a wariatem to fakt, ze nie
_([]:] +48 608-093-718 -  jestem wariatem."
> in net at weekends < -              /Salvador Dali

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