Original Usenet thread from alt.ascii-art, started 7 Feb 1995.
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Ripping off Copyright (was Ascii Converter...)
alt.ascii-art
· 14 messages · 7 Feb 1995 - 3 Mar 1995
sc3...@rncb.demon.co.uk (Simon Collins) writes: >On the last point. Can anybody make the picture in this sig better than it >is please. Thanks if anybody can do this also. > /^^\______________ > \~~/..........__..\ > \/\_____'<^ / \*| > / \ \/| \| > | \ / | > FOX > /|\ > | >COPYRIGHT (c) 1994, SIMON COLLINS I am disputing your claimed copyright to the above ascii fox drawing. I have used a practially identical one since before Summer 1993, and the fact that it appears that you have blatantly ripped it off a newsgroup or other source disgusts me greatly. I don't care that you may have added a few things, but essntially it is the same. Oh, and if you don't believe me, I do have quite a few witnesses that knew me and my sig at that time. --- /^^\__________ J.Doran (Farthing W Fox) - fo...@dcs.warwick.ac.uk \~~/ \ http://www.dcs.warwick.ac.uk/~fox/ \/\____,<^ /\ | <=- (c)1993!!! / \ \/| \| "Lady, have you got your Lions crossed!" | \ / | - Timon - TLK
In article <199...@dcs.warwick.ac.uk>, Fox (J.C...@dcs.warwick.ac.uk) writes: >sc3...@rncb.demon.co.uk (Simon Collins) writes: >>On the last point. Can anybody make the picture in this sig better than it >>is please. Thanks if anybody can do this also. > > >> /^^\______________ >> \~~/..........__..\ >> \/\_____'<^ / \*| >> / \ \/| \| >> | \ / | > > >> FOX >> /|\ >> | >>COPYRIGHT (c) 1994, SIMON COLLINS > >I am disputing your claimed copyright to the above ascii fox drawing. I have >used a practially identical one since before Summer 1993, and the fact that >it appears that you have blatantly ripped it off a newsgroup or other source >disgusts me greatly. I don't care that you may have added a few things, but >essntially it is the same. >Oh, and if you don't believe me, I do have quite a few witnesses that knew me >and my sig at that time. > >--- > >/^^\__________ J.Doran (Farthing W Fox) - fo...@dcs.warwick.ac.uk >\~~/ \ http://www.dcs.warwick.ac.uk/~fox/ > \/\____,<^ /\ | <=- (c)1993!!! > / \ \/| \| "Lady, have you got your Lions crossed!" > | \ / | - Timon - TLK > Hear, hear, wat's this copyright business anyway?!! ___ | | __|___|__ / | \ \||/ \O O/ `() |^| || '"' || /~|>X<|~\ || ()(----S----)()====() // (---A---) // (---H---) . . _ () (--A--) |\/| |~> |_) /~\ |\| |_~ (~ | \\ (---) | | |~\ |_) \_/ | | |__ _) . \\ (`~=~') (), (o_o) "A swell guy, but he's not quite all there..." /@ |~|~| ( ? () () ? || || ___MMMM___ ? || || ^(0--0)^ ? () () *-oOO--(__)--OOo-* ? || || | oo saha oo | ? || || |_( )______( )_| ? () () \ ( | | ) / ? /|| ||\ ---_--_\_)| |(_/_--_--- (") ^ | ^ \|/ \|/ \|/ \\||// \!/ \|/ \|/ \\||// \!/ \|/ _--_-___--_-___-_-_--___- \|/ \|/ \\||// \!/ -___--_-_-___-_--___-_--_ __--_-- Dead to the world --_--__ - I'm working on this far out boneman that was posted recently. Let's have some more dead stuff
Please bear with the summaries of the previous files as it relates to the discussion afterwards... Simon Collins (sc3...@rncb.demon.co.uk) writes: [picture of fox in sig] >>>COPYRIGHT (c) 1994, SIMON COLLINS Fox (J.C...@dcs.warwick.ac.uk) writes: >>I am disputing your claimed copyright to the above ascii fox drawing. [picture of J.C. Doran's original fox sig] Steve Crisp <sah...@acorn.win-uk.net> wrote: >Hear, hear, wat's this copyright business anyway?!! [A diddle of my Mr. Bones] >- >I'm working on this far out boneman that was posted recently. Let's >have some more dead stuff Now this is just to get the opinions of others on this newsgroup, no flames intended (please don't be offended Steve). Now, there's a fine line between ripping off another's artwork and diddling it into something else. Case in point, the above statement about working on the far out boneman that was posted (thanks for the compliment by the way). The picture was first made and posted by me. A second party, in this case Mr. Crisp, goes and diddles with it and adds a few changes (see article 20688 for reference.) Now looking at the artwork, there is now no longer a mention that I am the artist, which was there originally (see article 20547 for full picture): > # || || __ > # || || || > # () () |~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > # || || | by DCAU! | > # || || |____________| > # o o || > # /||' '||\ -__---_-_||_-__--_--- And thus the original creator was lost. Now Steve did a nice diddle of the skeleton and added his own stake in the ground. Who is the artist now? Personally, I would have liked my name retained on the diddle (as was TL Hesman's name was kept in the evolution of the lovebirds, for those of you who keep up with the posts). I know in the real world this won't always happen because people don't want to spoil 'their' artwork with someone elses name, but it would be nice and it is courteous. Over the years, no doubt tribute will be lost, but this was a first time post for this picture. I'm sure Felix Lee, Normand Veilleux, and Bob Allison (aka Scarecrow) would not like their name removed from their work (at least not without their consent). I've seen more than one post defending Susie Oviatt's work and countless more giving Mike Jittlov the acknowledgement for "Meriday in the Morning". > ? || || ___MMMM___ > ? || || ^(0--0)^ > ? () () *-oOO--(__)--OOo-* > ? || || | oo saha oo | > ? || || |_( )______( )_| > ? () () \ ( | | ) / > ? /|| ||\ ---_--_\_)| |(_/_--_--- (") original by dcau Something simple like this would do. Ascii art is done by us hobbyists and we don't get paid for doing it. The only thing we do get is acknowledgement of what we create, and to keep one's name on a diddled picture does this. So to sum up, if you take someone's artwork to use, even if you diddle it, keep the name of the original artist because it's just a nice thing to do. Looking forward to seeing more new artwork and diddles being posted. Everyone keep up the good work! Daniel -- @@@@88UUI::... @88UUUIII:::.. @::... @@@888UUUIII:::.. @@@888UUUII::.. @@888UUUIII::... @8I:::.. @@@888UUUIII:::.. @@@888UUUIII::.@@@888UUUII:::.. @8UUI:::...@@@888UUUIII:::.. @@@888UUUIII:::@@@888UUUII::... @88UUUI:::..@@@888UUUIII:::.. @@@888UUUIII::.@@@888UUUII:::.. @@888UUII:::.@@@888UUUIII:::.. @@@888UUUII:::. @@888UUUIII:::.@@@888UUIII::::@@888UUUII::... @@@8@8UUI::.. @88UUUIII:::@@@888UUUUIII:::..@88UUI::... dca...@casbah.acns.nwu.edu
I have to agree with Daniel that it is VERY nice to see your name
retained as the original artist of a picture that someone diddles.
I was very gratified that both Daniel and Normand put my name on their
diddles of the lovebirds, especially since their version looked completely
different from my original.
You wouldn't collect a Monet and try to pass it off as your own, so why
do it with ASCII art? Susie is a tremendous artist with a style that is
so unique anyone familiar with this art form can instanly recognize it.
It's just stupid for someone to try and rip off one her drawings. I for
one get really angry when I see someone trying to claim something that is
OBVIOUSLY not their work. Some of us (like me) haven't developed a
personal style yet so it's easy to pass off our work as your own. Please
don't. We work very hard and put in a lot of time creating these pictures.
Why not spend some time creating your own pictures? Something you can
be really proud to call your own.
Tina
In article <199...@dcs.warwick.ac.uk> J.C...@dcs.warwick.ac.uk (Fox) writes: >From: J.C...@dcs.warwick.ac.uk (Fox) >Subject: Re: Ripping off Copyright (was Ascii Converter...) >Date: Tue, 7 Feb 1995 14:39:47 GMT >sc3...@rncb.demon.co.uk (Simon Collins) writes: >>On the last point. Can anybody make the picture in this sig better than it >>is please. Thanks if anybody can do this also. >> /^^\______________ >> \~~/..........__..\ >> \/\_____'<^ / \*| >> / \ \/| \| >> | \ / | >> FOX >> /|\ >> | >>COPYRIGHT (c) 1994, SIMON COLLINS >I am disputing your claimed copyright to the above ascii fox drawing. I have >used a practially identical one since before Summer 1993, and the fact that >it appears that you have blatantly ripped it off a newsgroup or other source >disgusts me greatly. I don't care that you may have added a few things, but >essntially it is the same. >Oh, and if you don't believe me, I do have quite a few witnesses that knew me >and my sig at that time. >--- >/^^\__________ J.Doran (Farthing W Fox) - fo...@dcs.warwick.ac.uk >\~~/ \ http://www.dcs.warwick.ac.uk/~fox/ > \/\____,<^ /\ | <=- (c)1993!!! > / \ \/| \| "Lady, have you got your Lions crossed!" > | \ / | - Timon - TLK Who care... you should have bought your copyrights... now you can only say these stupid things... ohwell, that's live... People always rip things!!! Don't be bothered with it... it makes your life like hell... later Rolf
Rolf: >Who care... you should have bought your copyrights... now you can only say >these stupid things... ohwell, that's live... People always rip things!!! >Don't be bothered with it... it makes your life like hell... yup. if people keep taking your work without credit, the obvious solution is to stop making ascii art. remember that, all you aspiring artists! don't do ascii art! obAscii: a quick apple _ /_ / `'' \ | | \ / \__.__/
dca...@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Daniel Au) writes: (munch) >Now this is just to get the opinions of others on this newsgroup, no flames >intended (please don't be offended Steve). Now, there's a fine line between >ripping off another's artwork and diddling it into something else. Case in >point, the above statement about working on the far out boneman that was >posted (thanks for the compliment by the way). The picture was first made and >posted by me. A second party, in this case Mr. Crisp, goes and diddles with >it and adds a few changes (see article 20688 for reference.) >Now looking at the artwork, there is now no longer a mention that I am the >artist, which was there originally (see article 20547 for full picture): >> # || || __ >> # || || || >> # () () |~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >> # || || | by DCAU! | >> # || || |____________| >> # o o || >> # /||' '||\ -__---_-_||_-__--_--- >And thus the original creator was lost. Now Steve did a nice diddle of the >skeleton and added his own stake in the ground. Who is the artist now? >Personally, I would have liked my name retained on the diddle (as was TL >Hesman's name was kept in the evolution of the lovebirds, for those of you who >keep up with the posts). I know in the real world this won't always happen >because people don't want to spoil 'their' artwork with someone elses name, >but it would be nice and it is courteous. I agree with most of dcau's posting, but here's another just for the hell of it... At a international congress of folk art in the twenties (or thereabouts), with famous folk song collectors like Cecil Sharpe, there were debates as to (a) whether folk art could be defined, and (b) to whom the intellectual rights of a song (etc) belonged. The opinion that was accepted then, and has been widely held since runs roughly as follows. Consider (A) writes a song; (B) interprets it his was, (C) listening to (B) makes a dance tune out of it; (D) hears (C)'s version and plays it on different instruments at ceidilhs, with a set of other tunes, (E) hears it and fits different words to the tune, incorporating a bit of the other melodies in the set, and so on all the way to (Z). Now (Z)'s tune bears no resemblance to (A) and all of (A)-(Z) have had some part in the creation of the final thing. Though (A) may have kicked the whole process off, there is no identifiable author any longer. Folk art is art when this sort of thing happens. The works belong to everyone and to no-one. This does not mean that folk artists do not consider they have been ripped off from time to time. They can go on about it something beastly like any other species of human being. However the trend is still there. ASCII art seems to go through this process in minature. Ripping off a whole image because of a tiny diddle is not OK any more than copying Beethoven's 9th and diddling a few notes. However to insist on rigorously crediting all contributors will inhibit the growth of multiply diddled 'folk art' images. Perhaps you can drop the inital author's name if you feel you have put a lot onto the picture, but surely the real no-no is to put your name on instead! I dunno. I rather like seeing something of mine being used by someone else. Cheers. adBBba. Ba. A ~VgooodB ,B B. B b ,B" _ S"b B.Bb .dBb .B dBBB. B.aP" _"B. JB.aPb BaP" .B B .JB? B B. B.BBV B B BK. B BP'BCaP' B `YaaP' VBP B B? VB?' B `bd' B "YaaBP B B "Vbaa -- Richard Kirk 01483-448869 (phone) 01483-448845 (fax) Canon Research Europe Ltd, ra...@canon.co.uk
Hear! Hear! If I'm mentioned great! If not, I know that I contributed to
future art. If someone rips it off for a sig ... well ... ok .... If
someone just rips it off and says they forgot who did it and posts it again
this is fine with me ... If they rip it off unchanged and say they did it
then this I have a problem with ... I feel as if something is stolen ...
If they diddle on it a bit and make what they consider significant changes
and say they diddled 'they don't remember whoever's work' then this is also
ok with me ... I'm not getting any money for the work and I enjoy seeing
my work as it is passed around with acceptable credit in the terms stated
above. If it is really a major work (and this may be questionable) put
by
Lyle Murphy
(c) Copyright 1995
on the work and make it Freeware for free distribution of copyrighted material
to protect your credit (use your name of course) this will help tag your
work as your original work. I'm not sure of how derivative work should be
handled, as at some point the final result does not even resemble the original
work. Just my $.02 on the work I see on this and other ascii art boards. I
have really enjoyed these groups and look forward to a lot more material.
Cyberspace Cowboy
.. _ ..
(=. )^\ /^( (=. ' )%=====%''
' ;; ' .\/. ` ' ;; ';;__ `)
;; ;; ;; ;;``) A western style sig!
====^) ;;. ====^) %=====%..
' `` ( '''' ' `` ( ( '' `)
Lyle Murphy = lyl...@madvax.mo.ti.com
I have boldly learned what no one has learned before!
I hope what I wrote doesn't discourage anyone to post. The article was only
meant for discussion. I've had mixed responses and would appreciate it
readers would attack me personally. There are just some posters who would
like it if their name were retained on their artwork and perhaps some new
posters don't know about this. Better be cautious then to offend
unintentionally, right?
Anyway, I don't really mind if my work has my name on it or not. It would be
nice, but I understand the forum with which I'm distributing my work. Like
setting a boat afloat in an ocean and where it goes from there, no one
knows...I'd rather have the fun of setting the boats afloat.
Please keep posting. There's been a lot of good artwork lately!
Daniel
--
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dca...@casbah.acns.nwu.edu
G'day Felix!
13 Feb 95 02:50, Felix Lee wrote to All:
FL> and actually I was a little disconcerted when about a month ago
FL> in alt.ascii-art, my heart picture got completely distorted
FL> beyond recognition, but still had my initials attached to it :).
FL> but that doesn't bother me too much either. I'm not strongly
FL> attached to anything I do, once I've set it loose on the
FL> world. --
So anything that enters here is free game? I thought there was
something about intellectual copyright on any original works :-)
Garry
/ Garry Fung : Emerald Towers BBS
O[%\%\%{<>===========================- : "For the best gaming in Sydney"
\ gfu...@emerald.mpx.com.au : Data: +61-2-639-5136
--
Garry Fung: > So anything that enters here is free game? I thought there was > something about intellectual copyright on any original works :-) have I been sounding inconsistent? :) yes, copyright law probably does apply to everything posted to this newsgroup. no, I usually don't mind what happens to the stuff I do, as long as it's not used for commercial purposes. but that's just me. I can't speak for anyone else. some people are very sensitive about what happens to their work, and I think they deserve respect. it's partly a matter of how attached you are to your creations. if you think of them as a part of yourself or as an expression of yourself, then it's disturbing when they're misused. this is similar to the way that people are sensitive to how their name gets used. --
In article <3i8glj$2l...@uhost1.servtech.com> Brian Heath <hea...@cyber1.servtech.com> writes:
| > >I dunno. I rather like seeing something of mine being used by someone else.
| > ditto. not getting credit doesn't bother me much.
|
| I disagree--- maybe it's coming from an honors program in college -- but I'm anal about
| crediting someone when I lift their ASCII art from something they did .... I put a simple
| "courtesy..." next to the artwork....
This is only fair.
I understand my sig art appeared on this group, uncredited.
A friend's sig art appeared on this group - with a copyright
attached saying it belonged to the poster WHEN MY FRIEND
DREW IT HIMSELF!
Grr. That makes me angry.
--
PGP key & stuff: http://cswww2.essex.ac.uk/Web/mossap.html
|\ /| ------------------------------------------------
/| \_/_| Adam D. Moss mos...@essex.ac.uk
__--|\_/ _\ ------------------------------------------------
/_ (o \___o "A smartass once accused me of being subtle. I
/_ ----= / decked him with a short right over the heart and
/__ \ -----' an elbow in the trachea." - Harlan Ellison
\ // ------------------------------------------------
_/ And the men looked up in wonder
__/_/ And the hounds ran back to hide
/_-/ For the fox had changed to the Devil himself
Where he stood on the other side
In article <FLE...@logo.cse.psu.edu> fle...@cse.psu.edu (Felix Lee) writes: >yes, copyright law probably does apply to everything posted to this >newsgroup. No. You have to insert a copyright stamp on your work here if you want it legally protected. Otherwise you're contributing your art to the thousands of readers of this group. You shouldn't pass out bad legal advice! Jeff
>>yes, copyright law probably does apply to everything posted to this >>newsgroup. > No. You have to insert a copyright stamp on your work here if you > want it legally protected. Otherwise you're contributing your > art to the thousands of readers of this group. no! you're years out of date. ever since the US joined the Berne convention in 1989, nothing needs a copyright notice any more. see the draft FAQ titled "10 myths about copyright" in news.announce.newusers (or misc.int-property or misc.legal) --
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