Original Usenet thread from alt.ascii-art, started 20 Nov 2001.
jmove JavE
alt.ascii-art
· 37 messages · 20 Nov 2001 - 27 Nov 2001
ok Markus, can the playback controls on the WEB page
be undocked from the jmov play window. I made a narrow
jmov and resizing the thing kills the controls along
the bottom of the view area.
see:
http://www.bluedwarf.net/mikechat/jmov/dncflwr.htm
also I did another very short one based on a boxy OASCII
I did
see it here:
http://www.bluedwarf.net/mikechat/jmov/diamonds.htm
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> ok Markus, can the playback controls on the WEB page > be undocked from the jmov play window. I made a narrow > jmov and resizing the thing kills the controls along > the bottom of the view area. I suggested this some time ago , along with the ability to control the applet with Javascript (allowing you to do your own playback controls and much much more)
MJP wrote: > > ok Markus, can the playback controls on the WEB page > be undocked from the jmov play window. I made a narrow > jmov and resizing the thing kills the controls along > the bottom of the view area. > > see: > http://www.bluedwarf.net/mikechat/jmov/dncflwr.htm It is not possible to undock the controls. However you might consider removing the controls (by setting the parameter CONTROLS to 0) as play/pause also works by clicking into the applet window. With the next release of JavE you also might consider replacing the applet with the JavaScript version: In cooperation with Joaquim I have developed a JavaScript player that can handle the jmov compressed format very well. It will be available as export option in the jmov editor. > also I did another very short one based on a boxy OASCII > I did > > see it here: > http://www.bluedwarf.net/mikechat/jmov/diamonds.htm This is cool. It must have taken you a lot of time, as the handling of the current jmov editor is not good. A better solution is halfway finished, but still there are some hard nuts for me to crack. But that's what makes writing this program so interesting :) Stay tuned. Markus -- \-/ http://www.jave.de O_< Get JavE now! \-/ J|a|v|E /| J|a|v|E /-\ Ascii-Art for eyeryone / \ - for free! /-\
CeeJay wrote: > > > ok Markus, can the playback controls on the WEB page > > be undocked from the jmov play window. I made a narrow > > jmov and resizing the thing kills the controls along > > the bottom of the view area. > > I suggested this some time ago , along with the ability to control the applet > with Javascript (allowing you to do your own playback controls and much much > more) Well, the player is open source. Anyone with programming skills on JavaScript/Java can go ahead and make improvements. Also I will try to support as good as I can. Markus -- \-/ http://www.jave.de O_< Get JavE now! \-/ J|a|v|E /| J|a|v|E /-\ Ascii-Art for eyeryone / \ - for free! /-\
>also I did another very short one based on a boxy OASCII >I did > >see it here: >http://www.bluedwarf.net/mikechat/jmov/diamonds.htm i'd suggest a option to turn the cursor off... in movies like these it might be quite annoying -- \\\||/// ,---------------------------. | ,- -.| ( DON'T TELL ME HE.. OH NO!!! ) INSOMNIA part 6 |( .).)| `---------------------------' soon to be revealed | _) | _____,' alt.ascii-art
On Tue, 20 Nov 2001 23:57:57 +0100, "Peter \"lastfuture\" Marquardt" <las...@lastfuture.de> wrote: >>also I did another very short one based on a boxy OASCII >>I did >> >>see it here: >>http://www.bluedwarf.net/mikechat/jmov/diamonds.htm > >i'd suggest a option to turn the cursor off... in movies like these it >might be quite annoying > I tried several times to get rid of that, it is some artifact in JavE that wont go away. -- _________________________________________________ /| _____________________________________________ | //| | _ _ _ _______ _____ | | // | | | \/ \/ \\__ __\ _ \ .irc.bluedwarf.net.| | //__| | | \ \ \_ \ \ __/ .www.bluedwarf.net.| | \\ | | | \__\ \ \\ \ \ | | \\ | | |_____\ \__\_____\___\ -=MikeChat=- | | \\| |_____________________________________________| | \|_________________________________________________|
On Tue, 20 Nov 2001 23:34:13 +0100, Markus Gebhard <ukg...@rz.uni-karlsruhe.de> wrote: >MJP wrote: >> >> ok Markus, can the playback controls on the WEB page >> be undocked from the jmov play window. I made a narrow >> jmov and resizing the thing kills the controls along >> the bottom of the view area. >> >> see: >> http://www.bluedwarf.net/mikechat/jmov/dncflwr.htm > >It is not possible to undock the controls. However you might consider >removing the controls (by setting the parameter CONTROLS to 0) as >play/pause also works by clicking into the applet window. >With the next release of JavE you also might consider replacing the >applet with the JavaScript version: In cooperation with Joaquim I have >developed a JavaScript player that can handle the jmov compressed format >very well. It will be available as export option in the jmov editor. > >> also I did another very short one based on a boxy OASCII >> I did >> >> see it here: >> http://www.bluedwarf.net/mikechat/jmov/diamonds.htm > >This is cool. It must have taken you a lot of time, as the handling of >the current jmov editor is not good. A better solution is halfway >finished, but still there are some hard nuts for me to crack. But that's >what makes writing this program so interesting :) >Stay tuned. > >Markus I used two versions of jave, one to draw and copy from, the other I pasted into. Using the second copy (ver 2) to save as the jmov. Then all I had to edit out was the paste/drop frames. -- _________________________________________________ /| _____________________________________________ | //| | _ _ _ _______ _____ | | // | | | \/ \/ \\__ __\ _ \ .irc.bluedwarf.net.| | //__| | | \ \ \_ \ \ __/ .www.bluedwarf.net.| | \\ | | | \__\ \ \\ \ \ | | \\ | | |_____\ \__\_____\___\ -=MikeChat=- | | \\| |_____________________________________________| | \|_________________________________________________|
mik...@bluedwarf.spam.net (MJP) wrote in message news:<3bf...@news.concentric.net>... > On Tue, 20 Nov 2001 23:57:57 +0100, "Peter \"lastfuture\" Marquardt" <las...@lastfuture.de> > wrote: >> > > >i'd suggest a option to turn the cursor off... in movies like these it > >might be quite annoying > > > > I tried several times to get rid of that, it is some artifact in JavE > that wont go away. > -- To get rid of the cusor click on one of the other tool buttons besides "text". jjs > _________________________________________________ > /| _____________________________________________ | > //| | _ _ _ _______ _____ | | > // | | | \/ \/ \\__ __\ _ \ .irc.bluedwarf.net.| | > //__| | | \ \ \_ \ \ __/ .www.bluedwarf.net.| | > \\ | | | \__\ \ \\ \ \ | | > \\ | | |_____\ \__\_____\___\ -=MikeChat=- | | > \\| |_____________________________________________| | > \|_________________________________________________|
Markus Gebhard <ukg...@rz.uni-karlsruhe.de> wrote in message .news:<3BF...@rz.uni-karlsruhe.de>... >> MJP wrote: >> > >> > ok Markus, can the playback controls on the WEB page >> > be undocked from the jmov play window. I made a narrow >> > jmov and resizing the thing kills the controls along >> > the bottom of the view area. >> > >> > see: >> > http://www.bluedwarf.net/mikechat/jmov/dncflwr.htm >> >> It is not possible to undock the controls. However you might consider >> removing the controls (by setting the parameter CONTROLS to 0) as >> play/pause also works by clicking into the applet window. >> With the next release of JavE you also might consider replacing the >> applet with the JavaScript version: In cooperation with Joaquim I have >> developed a JavaScript player that can handle the jmov compressed format >> very well. It will be available as export option in the jmov editor. >> >> > also I did another very short one based on a boxy OASCII >> > I did >> > >> > see it here: >> > http://www.bluedwarf.net/mikechat/jmov/diamonds.htm >> >> This is cool. It must have taken you a lot of time, as the handling of >> the current jmov editor is not good. A better solution is halfway >> finished, but still there are some hard nuts for me to crack. But that's >> what makes writing this program so interesting :) >> Stay tuned. >> >> Markus >I used two versions of jave, one to draw and copy from, the other I pasted >into. >Using the second copy (ver 2) to save as the jmov. Then all I had to edit out >was the paste/drop frames. >-- Instead of saving the whole movie and editing out unwanted frames, first open the movie editor and click "Get from Jave" then "Duplicate" to add only the desired frames as you draw. jjs
On 20 Nov 2001 22:26:03 -0800, jjs...@yahoo.com (jjs) wrote: > >To get rid of the cusor click on one of the other tool buttons besides "text". > >jjs > Let me see if I can make it clear, I did that, several times, several different tools the artifact remained no matter, I even duplicated deleted, got from, overwrote redrew and chanted with incense. The artifact ghost cursor in some of the frames wont go away. You can download the jmov and try, if you are able to remove the artifact then maybe you can post it and I will replace the jmov with your repaired copy. Good Luck -- _________________________________________________ /| _____________________________________________ | //| | _ _ _ _______ _____ | | // | | | \/ \/ \\__ __\ _ \ .irc.bluedwarf.net.| | //__| | | \ \ \_ \ \ __/ .www.bluedwarf.net.| | \\ | | | \__\ \ \\ \ \ | | \\ | | |_____\ \__\_____\___\ -=MikeChat=- | | \\| |_____________________________________________| | \|_________________________________________________|
On 20 Nov 2001 22:37:25 -0800, jjs...@yahoo.com (jjs) wrote: > > >Instead of saving the whole movie and editing out unwanted frames, >first open the movie editor and click "Get from Jave" then "Duplicate" >to add only the desired frames as you draw. > >jjs This sounds equally awkward, however the next time I sit down to make a jmov I will try this. I still say that one should be able to start a blank jmov, then when a new frame is ready to add, simply click "ADD TO JMOV" without duplicating and overwriting the last frame. Hopefully Markus will be able to streamline this in future versions. ObASCII: Nothing /) /( -=(><)=- )/ (/ -- _________________________________________________ /| _____________________________________________ | //| | _ _ _ _______ _____ | | // | | | \/ \/ \\__ __\ _ \ .irc.bluedwarf.net.| | //__| | | \ \ \_ \ \ __/ .www.bluedwarf.net.| | \\ | | | \__\ \ \\ \ \ | | \\ | | |_____\ \__\_____\___\ -=MikeChat=- | | \\| |_____________________________________________| | \|_________________________________________________|
mik...@bluedwarf.spam.net (MJP) wrote in message news:<3bf...@news.concentric.net>... > On Tue, 20 Nov 2001 23:57:57 +0100, "Peter \"lastfuture\" Marquardt" <las...@lastfuture.de> > wrote: > > >>also I did another very short one based on a boxy OASCII > >>I did > >> > >>see it here: > >>http://www.bluedwarf.net/mikechat/jmov/diamonds.htm > > > >i'd suggest a option to turn the cursor off... in movies like these it > >might be quite annoying > > > > I tried several times to get rid of that, it is some artifact in JavE > that wont go away. > -- > _________________________________________________ > /| _____________________________________________ | > //| | _ _ _ _______ _____ | | > // | | | \/ \/ \\__ __\ _ \ .irc.bluedwarf.net.| | > //__| | | \ \ \_ \ \ __/ .www.bluedwarf.net.| | > \\ | | | \__\ \ \\ \ \ | | > \\ | | |_____\ \__\_____\___\ -=MikeChat=- | | > \\| |_____________________________________________| | > \|_________________________________________________|> >To get rid of the cusor click on one of the other tool buttons besides "text". > >jjs > > I should have mentioned that only works While you're adding frames one at a time in the editor. To remove the cursor from an existing movie, open it in notepad or something and delete the T:Text lines (or replace it with T:Selection etc.). The |: line gives the location of the cursor. The default seems to be |:0 0 jjs
MJP wrote: > > On Tue, 20 Nov 2001 23:57:57 +0100, "Peter \"lastfuture\" Marquardt" <las...@lastfuture.de> > wrote: > >>see it here: > >>http://www.bluedwarf.net/mikechat/jmov/diamonds.htm > > > >i'd suggest a option to turn the cursor off... in movies like these it > >might be quite annoying > > > > I tried several times to get rid of that, it is some artifact in JavE > that wont go away. At the moment you can get rid of the cursor by removing all lines "T:Text" form the jmov file. For the next release of the player I have thought about an additional applet parameter to optionally turn _on_ the cursor and selection border. So they will be invisible by default. Markus -- \-/ http://www.jave.de O_< Get JavE now! \-/ J|a|v|E /| J|a|v|E /-\ Ascii-Art for eyeryone / \ - for free! /-\
On Wed, 21 Nov 2001 10:34:09 +0100, Markus Gebhard <ukg...@rz.uni-karlsruhe.de> wrote: >At the moment you can get rid of the cursor by removing all lines >"T:Text" form the jmov file. >For the next release of the player I have thought about an additional >applet parameter to optionally turn _on_ the cursor and selection >border. So they will be invisible by default. > I'll mess with that later, thank you. mean while I did a 4 frame (three cells) demo using the duplicate/replace method. The result is good and there were no artifacts. visit: http://www.bluedwarf.net/mikechat/jmov/starspin.htm | \_/ `.|.' \_/ -=(_)=- (_) -=(_)=- (_) LOOP | / \ .'|`. / \ -- _________________________________________________ /| _____________________________________________ | //| | _ _ _ _______ _____ | | // | | | \/ \/ \\__ __\ _ \ .irc.bluedwarf.net.| | //__| | | \ \ \_ \ \ __/ .www.bluedwarf.net.| | \\ | | | \__\ \ \\ \ \ | | \\ | | |_____\ \__\_____\___\ -=MikeChat=- | | \\| |_____________________________________________| | \|_________________________________________________|
MJP wrote: > > On 20 Nov 2001 22:37:25 -0800, jjs...@yahoo.com (jjs) wrote: > > > > > >Instead of saving the whole movie and editing out unwanted frames, > >first open the movie editor and click "Get from Jave" then "Duplicate" > >to add only the desired frames as you draw. > > > >jjs > > This sounds equally awkward, however the next time I sit down to make > a jmov I will try this. I still say that one should be able to start > a blank jmov, then when a new frame is ready to add, simply click > "ADD TO JMOV" without duplicating and overwriting the last frame. > Hopefully Markus will be able to streamline this in future versions. In the version I am working on, the jmov editor is just an additional control to switch forward/backward through the frames (or select them from a list of all frames) and to dublicate or remove them. The content of the current frame is visible as additional document in the JavE editor window and modifications there will imediately be applied to the current frame in the movie. So writing an animation should be rather easy and it will work this way: 1) Start with the first frame (can also be at a different position in the movie afterwards) by simply editing it in JavE (resize the document to make the animation smaller - also an empty border can be removed automatically later). 2) Start the jmov editor. The current document will now be the only frame in the new jmov movie. 3) Now you can go on by dublicating the current frame. The dublicated frame will be shown as current document in the JavE editor. Make modifications and verify the difference between two frames by clicking next/prev in the jmov editor panel. 4) Go on by repeating step 3. You can also move the frames to different positions in the movie, delete them, change the color, etc. I think this is the easiest way to create an animation. The animation player will no longer be integrated in the jmov editor, but you can at any time hit a button "Show in Player" to see what your animation looks like when played with the current timing setting, etc. I have finished the modifications about 60%. There are still some problems for me to solve. But also there is still room for ideas. I also know that there is need for some kind of wizard to help creating the html code with the applet configuration... And I'd like to point out that the applet will no longer be the only way to publish the animation. You can have a look at an example for the new compressed JavaScript export here: http://www.jave.de/demo/progress3.html Also for smaller animations one can export to animated GIF. The scrollbar export will still be the same as in 2.0. I have not received any comments on it, but it always worked fine for me. Regards, Markus -- \-/ http://www.jave.de O_< Get JavE now! \-/ J|a|v|E /| J|a|v|E /-\ Ascii-Art for eyeryone / \ - for free! /-\
On Wed, 21 Nov 2001 11:05:17 +0100, Markus Gebhard <ukg...@rz.uni-karlsruhe.de> wrote: > >In the version I am working on, the jmov editor is just an additional >control to switch forward/backward through the frames (or select them >from a list of all frames) and to dublicate or remove them. >The content of the current frame is visible as additional document in >the JavE editor window and modifications there will imediately be >applied to the current frame in the movie. >So writing an animation should be rather easy and it will work this way: > >1) Start with the first frame (can also be at a different position in >the movie afterwards) by simply editing it in JavE (resize the document >to make the animation smaller - also an empty border can be removed >automatically later). > >2) Start the jmov editor. The current document will now be the only >frame in the new jmov movie. > >3) Now you can go on by dublicating the current frame. The dublicated >frame will be shown as current document in the JavE editor. >Make modifications and verify the difference between two frames by >clicking next/prev in the jmov editor panel. > >4) Go on by repeating step 3. You can also move the frames to different >positions in the movie, delete them, change the color, etc. > >I think this is the easiest way to create an animation. > >The animation player will no longer be integrated in the jmov editor, >but you can at any time hit a button "Show in Player" to see what your >animation looks like when played with the current timing setting, etc. > >I have finished the modifications about 60%. There are still some >problems for me to solve. But also there is still room for ideas. > >I also know that there is need for some kind of wizard to help creating >the html code with the applet configuration... > >And I'd like to point out that the applet will no longer be the only way >to publish the animation. You can have a look at an example for the new >compressed JavaScript export here: > http://www.jave.de/demo/progress3.html >Also for smaller animations one can export to animated GIF. >The scrollbar export will still be the same as in 2.0. I have not >received any comments on it, but it always worked fine for me. > >Regards, >Markus if you mean the controls at the bottom of the preview pane [back] [play] [pause] [stop] [next] I would like a "jump to frame #" [127] <-- indicates current frame, overwrite with frame you want. click "go" I don't know if you can do that, but it would be nice. the java script on that page is long, but if it is the same regardless of content in the jmov then its portable. If there are variables contained in it, I can see that getting difficult to work around for someone not knowledgeable in java, if you must configure it manually. Please post also the comic on that page in a comic format: with only the cells that are part of the comic and not the character by character drawing. Do you happen to have the html color table handy (ok so I AM lazy) it would be nice to have a reference color-to-code chart to pick the color from. Artifacts: The earlier discussion on removing them ended with you hiding the cursor, might it be better to just have an option to "remove tool and cursor" from the output? That way you can still have a jmov showing how a pic was made and for nontutorial animations JavE can just strip that information out. -- _________________________________________________ /| _____________________________________________ | //| | _ _ _ _______ _____ | | // | | | \/ \/ \\__ __\ _ \ .irc.bluedwarf.net.| | //__| | | \ \ \_ \ \ __/ .www.bluedwarf.net.| | \\ | | | \__\ \ \\ \ \ | | \\ | | |_____\ \__\_____\___\ -=MikeChat=- | | \\| |_____________________________________________| | \|_________________________________________________|
> And I'd like to point out that the applet will no longer be the only way > to publish the animation. You can have a look at an example for the new > compressed JavaScript export here: > http://www.jave.de/demo/progress3.html It's nice. I do very few asciimations myself, but I can code Javascript so I might put my hands on the code at some time ( just not now ) I can however see an obvious improvement : Seperate the player in one script and the data in another. This way if you load the player script with an external link and not inline , then by the time the user views a second asciimation the player script will already be cached in memmory and subsequent load time is reduced. And you also save space on your server hosting the player only once instead of 1 time per asciimation.
CeeJay wrote: > > > And I'd like to point out that the applet will no longer be the only way > > to publish the animation. You can have a look at an example for the new > > compressed JavaScript export here: > > http://www.jave.de/demo/progress3.html > > It's nice. I do very few asciimations myself, but I can code Javascript so I > might put my hands on the code at some time ( just not now ) > I can however see an obvious improvement : > > Seperate the player in one script and the data in another. > [...] The player code is about 3.7kB - the data is 19.7kB. For the player I think it will not bring much advantage to have it cached. As for the data it could be zipped to about 3.2kB - but that would mean adding much more complicated code an so enlarging the palyer... I think 24kB for player+data+html are a great (for Joaquim and me started with about 2MB). I would rather like to see improvements for the controls. Today I have seen that I can not start the animation again when it is finished... Well, however feel free to play around and add whatever feature you want :-) Markus -- \-/ http://www.jave.de O_< Get JavE now! \-/ J|a|v|E /| J|a|v|E /-\ Ascii-Art for eyeryone / \ - for free! /-\
"Markus Gebhard" <ukg...@rz.uni-karlsruhe.de> wrote in message news:3BF...@rz.uni-karlsruhe.de... > > I think 24kB for player+data+html are a great (for Joaquim and me > started with about 2MB). I would rather like to see improvements for the > controls. Today I have seen that I can not start the animation again > when it is finished... Well, you can, but it's not very intuitive. Just check "Loop", which will cause it to play past the end and start over. A play button that just resets the variable "No" to zero would probably be more obvious. -- http://www.ite.mh.se/~joaal98/ascii ___ __ _ _ _ ________ _ / \\\ And easy to add, \ \| `.| `.| `\ \ \ \ `.' \ [.[.]-\\ , I might add. \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ _, \ /_ /|/ /\ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ (jg) {-} |= \__/`._|\_\_\_,_\__|\_\_\ \_\ #// (\
> > Seperate the player in one script and the data in another. > > [...] > > The player code is about 3.7kB - the data is 19.7kB. For the player I > think it will not bring much advantage to have it cached. As for the > data it could be zipped to about 3.2kB - but that would mean adding much > more complicated code an so enlarging the palyer... > > I think 24kB for player+data+html are a great (for Joaquim and me > started with about 2MB). I would rather like to see improvements for the > controls. Today I have seen that I can not start the animation again > when it is finished... > > Well, however feel free to play around and add whatever feature you want > :-) I will. I'm currently looking at the code and trying to figure it and the dataformat out. Some codecomments would be nice .. or a explanation of how the fileformat works. I think I have gotten the fileformat and most of the code though. I can already see lots of room for improvement .. I will try and implement some of it. It will take some time. However one thing I should point out at once is that the code does not execute in Mozilla 0.9.6. We must make sure that the code will work with all browsers .. not just IE.
CeeJay wrote: [about the new javascript player for ascii animations] > > Well, however feel free to play around and add whatever feature you want > > :-) > > I will. I'm currently looking at the code and trying to figure it and the > dataformat out. > Some codecomments would be nice .. or a explanation of how the fileformat works. > I think I have gotten the fileformat and most of the code though. Most of the code is from the AsciiPacker class form the open source JMOV player applet. Other parts are from the original Javascript player. We have added code for the sleep time between two frames and a new frame compression format "D" (that almost only makes sense with 'making of' movies): It only can be used when the difference between two subsequent frames are a few characters in a single line. > I can already see lots of room for improvement .. I will try and implement some > of it. > It will take some time. I am looking forward to it. BTW: I am also looking forward for the next release of JavE ;-) Still a lot of things to be done... > However one thing I should point out at once is that the code does not execute > in Mozilla 0.9.6. > We must make sure that the code will work with all browsers .. not just IE. Hm, I have tested it in IE, NS and Opera. I had a good feeling for the correctness of the code for Opera is not that good on JavaScript... Can you find the problem with Mozilla? Markus -- \-/ http://www.jave.de O_< Get JavE now! \-/ J|a|v|E /| J|a|v|E /-\ Ascii-Art for eyeryone / \ - for free! /-\
> > However one thing I should point out at once is that the code does not execute > > in Mozilla 0.9.6. > > We must make sure that the code will work with all browsers .. not just IE. > > Hm, I have tested it in IE, NS and Opera. I had a good feeling for the > correctness of the code for Opera is not that good on JavaScript... > Can you find the problem with Mozilla? Err not at the moment, it seems like it doesn't try to execute the code at all
> Most of the code is from the AsciiPacker class form the open source JMOV > player applet. Other parts are from the original Javascript player. We > have added code for the sleep time between two frames and a new frame > compression format "D" (that almost only makes sense with 'making of' > movies): It only can be used when the difference between two subsequent > frames are a few characters in a single line. I plan to change that. Packing controlcommands into the highascii chars and doing other thing to reduce the overhead. One thing is to remove all the new lines , because they aren't needed .. anothing will be to pack to entire movie into one long javascript string because you waste bytes defining "",[return char] all the time
CeeJay wrote: > > > Most of the code is from the AsciiPacker class form the open source JMOV > > player applet. Other parts are from the original Javascript player. We > > have added code for the sleep time between two frames and a new frame > > compression format "D" (that almost only makes sense with 'making of' > > movies): It only can be used when the difference between two subsequent > > frames are a few characters in a single line. > > I plan to change that. Packing controlcommands into the highascii chars and > doing other thing to reduce the overhead. This should reduce the size to less than 50%. > One thing is to remove all the new lines , because they aren't needed .. I did not care about this 1kB, for I wanted to have a code that also looks good in an editor :-) > anothing will be to pack to entire movie into one long javascript string because > you waste bytes defining "",[return char] all the time Joaquim and I decided to use an array in order to get rid of the startup time needed to unpack all frames at once. This was very annoying with the old JavaScript player. Of course one can think of a different way to pick out the single frames subsequently. I am looking forward to seeing the file size of the nerd boy animation dropping below 24kB. The limit should be about 5kB for that is what 7-Zip makes out of it removing all redundant parts from the current code. Markus -- \-/ http://www.jave.de O_< Get JavE now! \-/ J|a|v|E /| J|a|v|E /-\ Ascii-Art for eyeryone / \ - for free! /-\
On Sat, 24 Nov 2001 23:16:46 +0100, Markus Gebhard <ukg...@rz.uni-karlsruhe.de> wrote: >I am looking forward to seeing the file size of the nerd boy animation >dropping below 24kB. The limit should be about 5kB for that is what >7-Zip makes out of it removing all redundant parts from the current >code. > >Markus "panelize" it. Not as a tutorial/observation during creation, but with just the pertinate frames from the finished comic. I did this now and the raw file is only 1.5kb, zipped 544b one thing that might be nice, dont know if it can be done, but have the player be a single page and have it run whichever jmov you select from a menu on that page. Maybe you would have to code more parameters into the jmov; size, background/foreground color, speed, controls, autorun, and loop. Many of those are already configured in the jmov now. Was just a thought. -- _________________________________________________ /| _____________________________________________ | //| | _ _ _ _______ _____ | | // | | | \/ \/ \\__ __\ _ \ .irc.bluedwarf.net.| | //__| | | \ \ \_ \ \ __/ .www.bluedwarf.net.| | \\ | | | \__\ \ \\ \ \ | | \\ | | |_____\ \__\_____\___\ -=MikeChat=- | | \\| |_____________________________________________| | \|_________________________________________________|
> > > Most of the code is from the AsciiPacker class form the open source JMOV > > > player applet. Other parts are from the original Javascript player. We > > > have added code for the sleep time between two frames and a new frame > > > compression format "D" (that almost only makes sense with 'making of' > > > movies): It only can be used when the difference between two subsequent > > > frames are a few characters in a single line. > > > > I plan to change that. Packing controlcommands into the highascii chars and > > doing other thing to reduce the overhead. > > This should reduce the size to less than 50%. or more possibly .. if you consider that out of the 7bit 128 chars not all are valid for ascii-art .. and of thoose not all are common chars .. we normally only use chars like .:,`'/-_\")([]{}+* .. etc .. letters are'nt common. However you must consider that not all chars are valid chars in javascript arrays .. a / f.x will need to be encoded with // which is something to avoid .. thoose kinds of char will need to be replaced with highchars in the array/string. I will try to find out what the valid chars are for both ascii and javascript and find the best arrangement. If it turns out that there are more than double the amount of chars available then two chars could be packed into one byte. Especially if you consider that we usually use a very limited charset of the possible range then we should be able to encode several chars into one byte. Then the exceptions (the uncommon chars) would be coded to a larger size than they would normally (same thing for extended ascii if you wanted to do ascii-art with extended ascii chars) > > One thing is to remove all the new lines , because they aren't needed .. > > I did not care about this 1kB, for I wanted to have a code that also > looks good in an editor :-) > > > anothing will be to pack to entire movie into one long javascript string because > > you waste bytes defining "",[return char] all the time > > Joaquim and I decided to use an array in order to get rid of the startup > time needed to unpack all frames at once. This was very annoying with > the old JavaScript player. Of course one can think of a different way to > pick out the single frames subsequently. I was thinking of just such a thing ! I was thinking of seperating large movies into multiple arrays so the playback could start when array 1 was loaded and the rest of the arrays would load while playing array 1 .. streaming playback ;) I also plan to reduce the number of bytes it takes to define a position by packing the number into either 2 8bit numbers (entire window maxsize would be 256 * 256) or 2 4bit numbers ( 16 x 16 window) .. or better yet .. ability to define what bits define x and what bits define y value so one could use more bits in one direction than another ( 3 x 5 bits f.x ) or use spare bits to define the char that should be in this position. I was thinking that there should be different commands for different types of position changes .. absolute or relative and with from 4 to 8 (is 256 positions enough ? or should we say 10 bits ) using the leftover bits to define the next char (and usually the only in that frame .. at least when you do "the making of ???" types of movies) one could also set the position in relation to the current cursor position and get away with have fewer bits for defining the position because normally you would only moved a short distance with the cursor. You could use even fewer chars to define position if you implemented prediction .. if a position was simply omited from the next frame then you could asume that the cursor had moved in the same direction (based on the last two frames - default would be east/right) and by the same number of chars as last time .. usually and default 1 char .. but if you altered every other char or every third that too would work fine. I also plan to decompres to a tiny little buffer so that display would not be slowed by the time to decompress but decompression could happen during delays in the display .. and maybe to start two thread for greater precision in the timing .. A trick used when you move objects in the screen with DHTML since some built in limitation in some OS's or maybe javascript implementation set a minimum delay that is not low enough to achive decent framerates .. Though I don't think this will be nessisary for asciimations since they don't normally run in this high FPS that normal animations needs. > I am looking forward to seeing the file size of the nerd boy animation > dropping below 24kB. The limit should be about 5kB for that is what > 7-Zip makes out of it removing all redundant parts from the current > code. If you made the data smaller you should be able to make it even smaller .. but if we can get below 5 KB BEFORE compressing it with a standard compression formula like zip then we have really done well. I'm going to bed now , but I'd like to post my short scribbles ( a brainstorm ) about a improved format .. some of it I have explained here ---- Use highchars as commmands Special doublebyte command for when you really want to display a highchar (non-ascii-art) Next char prediction - direction of next char Deltacompression .. either as two 8 bit (not really) input or as two 4 bit pack "/" and """ and "'" and all the other javescript specialchars into highchar commands possible commands : scrolling selection moving Store delays with a framenumber and only record changes or when different from a standard delay (deltacompression) Separate player and data. Store repeated characters as a command followed by a 4 bit number + 4 bit char (runlenght encoding) or 3 bit number and 5 bit char .. something like that ... IF the char repeated was a common char It would probably need 2 bytes if it was not a common char Parting the data into several array if the movie was very big .. for streaming playback :) --
In article <3c0033bc$0$74803$edf...@dspool01.news.tele.dk>, CeeJay <use...@ceejay.cjb.NOSPAMnet> wrote: > > > > Most of the code is from the AsciiPacker class form the open > > > > source JMOV player applet. Other parts are from the original > > > > Javascript player. [snip] > However you must consider that not all chars are valid chars in > javascript arrays [snip] > I will try to find out what the valid chars are for both ascii and > javascript and find the best arrangement. Hello! I'm new here - I've been lurking for a while - and I'm a bit confused by the way the JavE project is discussed in various posts. I'm sure I'd read it was a Java project, but there's references like those above, to JavaScript. My browser (Oregano) on my platform (an ex-Acorn Risc PC running Risc OS) can't handle Java, but can run JavaScript. is thee any point in me following the JavE discussions? -- Jeremy C B Nicoll - my opinions are my own.
"Jeremy C B Nicoll" <Jer...@omba.demon.co.uk> wrote in message news:4ad...@omba.demon.co.uk... > In article <3c0033bc$0$74803$edf...@dspool01.news.tele.dk>, > CeeJay <use...@ceejay.cjb.NOSPAMnet> wrote: > > > > > Most of the code is from the AsciiPacker class form the open > > > > > source JMOV player applet. Other parts are from the original > > > > > Javascript player. > > [snip] > > > However you must consider that not all chars are valid chars in > > javascript arrays > > [snip] > > > I will try to find out what the valid chars are for both ascii and > > javascript and find the best arrangement. > > Hello! I'm new here - I've been lurking for a while - and I'm a bit > confused by the way the JavE project is discussed in various posts. I'm > sure I'd read it was a Java project, but there's references like those > above, to JavaScript. > > My browser (Oregano) on my platform (an ex-Acorn Risc PC running Risc OS) > can't handle Java, but can run JavaScript. is thee any point in me > following the JavE discussions? While JavE itself is written in java and will only run on a platform that has a java runtime enviroment , the Jave Movie Player exists in both a Java and a JavaScript version. I was talking about improving the fileformat to make it more efficient .. especially for use with the JavaScript version of the player. You need JavE to create the movies .. and thus Javasupport. But you may play them back without javasupport with the JavaScript player.
In article <3c016a1d$0$25378$edf...@dspool01.news.tele.dk>, CeeJay <use...@ceejay.cjb.NOSPAMnet> wrote: [snip] > You need JavE to create the movies .. and thus Java support. But you > may play them back without java support with the JavaScript player. Can you give me a URL for somewhere I'd be able to find a small movie that would play back under JavaScript so that I could try this out? A few days ago, I did try looking at a web page somewhere (can't remember which one) but it announced that I'd need Java support to continue, so I just gave up... -- Jeremy C B Nicoll - my opinions are my own.
CeeJay wrote: > > "Jeremy C B Nicoll" <Jer...@omba.demon.co.uk> wrote > > > > Hello! I'm new here - I've been lurking for a while - and I'm a bit > > confused by the way the JavE project is discussed in various posts. I'm > > sure I'd read it was a Java project, but there's references like those > > above, to JavaScript. > > > > My browser (Oregano) on my platform (an ex-Acorn Risc PC running Risc OS) > > can't handle Java, but can run JavaScript. is thee any point in me > > following the JavE discussions? > > While JavE itself is written in java and will only run on a platform that has a > java runtime enviroment , the Jave Movie Player exists in both a Java and a > JavaScript version. > I was talking about improving the fileformat to make it more efficient .. > especially for use with the JavaScript version of the player. > > You need JavE to create the movies .. and thus Javasupport. > But you may play them back without javasupport with the JavaScript player. I think it is a good idea to mention the locations for the demo movies we have been talking about: It is the 'making of' a nerd boy episode. The movie is available with the Java Applet player: http://www.jave.de/player/demo/demo7.html And there also is the JavaScript player: http://www.jave.de/demo/progress3.html The JavaScript animation has been created with an export tool, that will be available with the next release of JavE. We are talking about improvements for the JavaScript player (and also for the applet - BTW: it is open source). Everybody is welcome to contribute to this project. For more informations about the applet player have a look here: http://www.jave.de/player/ Markus -- \-/ http://www.jave.de O_< Get JavE now! \-/ J|a|v|E /| J|a|v|E /-\ Ascii-Art for eyeryone / \ - for free! /-\
Thanks for replies so far. In article <3C0...@rz.uni-karlsruhe.de>, Markus Gebhard <ukg...@rz.uni-karlsruhe.de> wrote: > CeeJay wrote: > > You need JavE to create the movies .. and thus Javasupport. But you > > may play them back without javasupport with the JavaScript player. I've downloaded the Javascript player (www.jave.de/demo/progress3.html) and started to play with the code so that I can follow what it is doing more easily... In that example, the frame definitons are stored in an array within the script within the page. To play a different movie, I assume I'll need to replace the array's contents with some other values, and perhaps modify the size & shape of the form's textarea. > I think it is a good idea to mention the locations for the demo movies > we have been talking of - the 'making of' a nerd boy episode. The > movie is available with the Java Applet player: > www.jave.de/player/demo/demo7.html I took this to mean that if I visited this URL I'd be able to find the complete definition of a nerd-boy movie, which (?) I'd then be able to edit into a copy of the progress3.html web page and display. But when I go to the demo7.html page (and other demo pages) all I get is a simple page telling me that I can't use Java. Am I doing something wrong? -- Jeremy C B Nicoll - my opinions are my own.
Jeremy C B Nicoll wrote: > > I've downloaded the Javascript player (www.jave.de/demo/progress3.html) > and started to play with the code so that I can follow what it is doing > more easily... In that example, the frame definitons are stored in an > array within the script within the page. To play a different movie, I > assume I'll need to replace the array's contents with some other values, > and perhaps modify the size & shape of the form's textarea. That's right. I have written an exporter tool for the JMOV editor in JavE that creates the complete html file with player and movie data (frames+timing info). (other options are/will be animated gif export, scrollbar animation, etc.) I think it is not a good idea to provide a JavaScript player and to have to add the data by hand. If there are improvements for the player I will integrate them into JavE and creating animations will be simple - w/o having knowledge about JavaScript. On the other side: if there are any common formats for ascii animations I can write import utilities for them. At the moment I am improving the movie editor capabilities in JavE. It all will be much better soon. > > I think it is a good idea to mention the locations for the demo movies > > we have been talking of - the 'making of' a nerd boy episode. The > > movie is available with the Java Applet player: > > www.jave.de/player/demo/demo7.html > > I took this to mean that if I visited this URL I'd be able to find the > complete definition of a nerd-boy movie, which (?) I'd then be able to > edit into a copy of the progress3.html web page and display. But when I > go to the demo7.html page (and other demo pages) all I get is a simple > page telling me that I can't use Java. Am I doing something wrong? On those demo pages there are Java applets (the 'JMOV Player' or 'JavE player applet') showing one animation each. Looking at the source code of the html you will find the location of the *.jmov files. They contain the animation data. The animation file you are looking for is: http://www.jave.de/player/demo/hovercraft.zip JMOV animations can be stored in compressed zip files - the player will detect automatically whether they are compressed or not (regardless of the file name ending). The jmov file format specification can be found here: http://www.jave.de/player/jmov_specification.html As the player software is open source there is no need to worry about the compression algorithms. Joaquim already has ported them to the JavaScript player (see the JavaScript demo) and we have added a new type of compression that only is available for the JavaScript player. The intention was to reduce the file size w/o having the ability to use zip-compression. There is still room for lots of improvements. If you have any questions about the player or the file format: just ask. Markus -- \-/ http://www.jave.de O_< Get JavE now! \-/ J|a|v|E /| J|a|v|E /-\ Ascii-Art for eyeryone / \ - for free! /-\
> > > You need JavE to create the movies .. and thus Javasupport. But you > > > may play them back without javasupport with the JavaScript player. > > I've downloaded the Javascript player (www.jave.de/demo/progress3.html) > and started to play with the code so that I can follow what it is doing > more easily... In that example, the frame definitons are stored in an > array within the script within the page. To play a different movie, I > assume I'll need to replace the array's contents with some other values, > and perhaps modify the size & shape of the form's textarea. Well you could do that .. be that would tedious work. It would be much easier to install a Java Virtual Macine for you OS and use JavE to make the movies. However only 3 JVM's exist for RiscOS so far. The Acorn JAVA CD .. � 39.99 from Acorn dealers , AFAICT Chockcino .. still in development and will not be free when released http://chocky.mine.nu/java/ Zhaba - Very early alpha .. but free http://www.eqrd.net/english/riscos.html With a lot of luck JavE will run on one of thoose JVM's > But when I > go to the demo7.html page (and other demo pages) all I get is a simple > page telling me that I can't use Java. Am I doing something wrong? That is because the demo7.html page use the JAVA player. You do not have a JVM so you cannot view it.
In article <3C0...@rz.uni-karlsruhe.de>, Markus Gebhard <ukg...@rz.uni-karlsruhe.de> wrote: > I think it is not a good idea to provide a JavaScript player and to have > to add the data by hand. Absolutely! But at the moment I'm just playing and don't mind creating the HTML to display a movie, by hand. > > > I think it is a good idea to mention the locations for the demo > > > movies we have been talking of - the 'making of' a nerd boy > > > episode. The movie is available with the Java Applet player: > > > www.jave.de/player/demo/demo7.html > > > > I took this to mean that if I visited this URL I'd be able to find > > the complete definition of a nerd-boy movie, which (?) I'd then be > > able to edit into a copy of the progress3.html web page and display. > > But when I go to the demo7.html page (and other demo pages) all I get > > is a simple page telling me that I can't use Java. Am I doing > > something wrong? > On those demo pages there are Java applets (the 'JMOV Player' or 'JavE > player applet') showing one animation each. Looking at the source code > of the html you will find the location of the *.jmov files. They > contain the animation data. > The animation file you are looking for is: > http://www.jave.de/player/demo/hovercraft.zip OK, I just looked at the JMOV file in that - I take it that this is the actual movie definition while the values in successive elements of the "Frames" array in the javascript player are (somehow) derived from the very much bigger movie definition. > As the player software is open source there is no need to worry about > the compression algorithms. Joaquim already has ported them to the > JavaScript player (see the JavaScript demo) and we have added a new type > of compression that only is available for the JavaScript player. Is this what makes the contents of the "Frames" array so much smaller than the 242K hovercraft JMOV file? I think I've misunderstood - I'd been hoping to find, in essence, some more examples of definitions of "Frames" and "Delay" arrays so that I'd be able to watch something other than the hovercraft in my browser. Thanks for taking the time to reply to my questions. -- Jeremy C B Nicoll - my opinions are my own.
In article <3c02a9b6$0$74737$edf...@dspool01.news.tele.dk>, CeeJay <use...@ceejay.cjb.NOSPAMnet> wrote: > Well you could do that .. be that would tedious work. It would be much > easier to install a Java Virtual Macine for your OS and use JavE to > make the movies. I agree about the tedium... A Java machine, well, there might be a few problems there... > However only 3 JVM's exist for RiscOS so far. > The Acorn JAVA CD .. � 39.99 from Acorn dealers , AFAICT I didn't know that that was still available. > Chockcino .. still in development and will not be free when released > http://chocky.mine.nu/java/ I thought that development of this had ended. Where did you get your information? > Zhaba - Very early alpha .. but free > http://www.eqrd.net/english/riscos.html I've seen the announcements but I'd thought that the alpha was, as you say, perhaps a bit *too* early... > With a lot of luck JavE will run on one of thoose JVM's Well I'll enquire on some of the comp.sys.acorn newsgroups and see if the Acorn JAVA CD *is* still available from anyone (and if it is thought to work under current versions of RiscOS) and I'll have a look at eQR&D's version too. > > But when I go to the demo7.html page (and other demo pages) all I get > > is a simple page telling me that I can't use Java. Am I doing > > something wrong? > That is because the demo7.html page use the JAVA player. You do not > have a JVM so you cannot view it. I knew that, but someone had said that the movie source was available with th player on those pages. In fact, it's not available, because you don't get the relevant page if the browser can't handle Java. -- Jeremy C B Nicoll - my opinions are my own.
Jeremy C B Nicoll wrote: > > OK, I just looked at the JMOV file in that - I take it that this is the > actual movie definition while the values in successive elements of the > "Frames" array in the javascript player are (somehow) derived from the > very much bigger movie definition. That's right. The only difference is that some meta information is stripped and some frames are comressed to a D-frame (when only one or a few characters in one line are changed from one frame to another) or even to an empty frame "" (no change). > Is this what makes the contents of the "Frames" array so much smaller > than the 242K hovercraft JMOV file? Yes. The jmov file can be zip compressed so I do not worry about the size there - on the other hand in a jmov file I have to access a single frame fast w/o uncompressing the previous to get the missing information in D-frames. > I think I've misunderstood - I'd been hoping to find, in essence, some > more examples of definitions of "Frames" and "Delay" arrays so that I'd > be able to watch something other than the hovercraft in my browser. I have made a package of jmov files and the corresponding JavaScript animations: http://www.jave.de/demo/jmovs.zip BTW: A timing information of 0 means that the previous timing information will be used. > Thanks for taking the time to reply to my questions. That's alright - Thanks for looking at my weird jmov files/spec/etc. :-) Markus -- \-/ http://www.jave.de O_< Get JavE now! \-/ J|a|v|E /| J|a|v|E /-\ Ascii-Art for eyeryone / \ - for free! /-\
In article <3C0...@rz.uni-karlsruhe.de>, Markus Gebhard <ukg...@rz.uni-karlsruhe.de> wrote: [snip] > I have made a package of jmov files and the corresponding JavaScript > animations: www.jave.de/demo/jmovs.zip Thank-you! I'm downloading it as I write this.... -- Jeremy C B Nicoll - my opinions are my own.
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