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Original Usenet message from alt.ascii-art, 2 Mar 1998.
Re: New twist on Re: SigZag

Re: New twist on Re: SigZag

Donovan wrote:
> 
> Here's something that I'm sure wasn't said before.

I've heard it before... This whole discussion has been dragged through 
aaa several times already.

> Who says that the
> pics we come up with are the original.

This may be true for some micro art but as the size and complexity 
increases it gets less likely.

> I mean, it's not like we have
> unlimited characters to work with, and ASCII art has been around since
> the first home computer!

Longer, much longer.

Text art in different forms has been around for several thousand years.

http://alaike.lcc.hawaii.edu/sg/project_101/hiero.html


> My snail sig may have been done by someone else
> many years ago. Just because I did it from scratch doesn't mean someone
> didn't make it exactly like that once before.

No, and if you write a poem there's no guarantee that it has not 
already been written...

> My point is how can we be sure we are taking credit for an original
> ASCII pic, when there is no way to prove that it is the original to
> begin with. So one step deeper how can we copyright them if we can't
> prove that. The odds that someone did the Mona Lisa exactly the same,
> every brush stroke, is as close to impossible as you can get. But this
> pic...
>    __o
>  _`\<,_     --- Dave
> (*)/ (*)
> 

We can't really be sure, but I bet I'm the only person who has made this 
particular bike exactly like this:


                                                      __
                                                    .'  `.
                                                   /      \
                     o                            /        |
                      8ooooooooo               __________  |
                        ``8'                  /.-------. \ |
                         |`                   ||      ` ` |<
                          `|___________________\\      |||| )
                          / _____________________\ ._._.'.'(
                         / |                     \\ ``--'
                        //|`                      \\
                       //  `|                      \\
                      //   |`                      . \
         .d888888b.  //     `|                   .'.'\\  .d888888b.
      o8Y'   .    `Y//      |`                  / /   \\Y'    .  .`Y8o
    oY'   .  .   . //Y8o     `|               .'.'  dY'\\  .  .     .`Yo
   dY  .     .    //   Yb    |`              / /   dY.  \\    .    .  .Yb
  dY .  .  . .  .//   . Yb    `|           .'.'   dY   . \\ . . . .     Yb
 oY.   . .   .  //  .    Yb   |`          / /    oY .    .\\  .  . .   . Yo
o8    .   .  . // .    .  8b   `| =.=   .'.'    o8     .   \\ . .   .     8o
8Y  .    . . .//__________Y8___|`_____ / /      8P  .     . \\.. .     .  Y8
8............@/__ ........ 8   .'.  ..`.'       8............\@)...........8
8    .   . (`-.__`--.__   d8  /. . |..  \       8     .  .  . . . .     .  8
8b    .    .(@   `--.__`--.__|....  .... |      8b.    .   .  .  .   .    d8
Y8 .    . .  `-._      `--.__|..   @     |      Y8   .  . . . . . . .  .  8Y
 Yb   .  .   .  .`-._   dP   |.... |.    |       Yb.     .    .    .     dP
  Yb.   .  . . . .   `-dP     \  . |... /         Yb .  .  .  .  .  .  .dP
   Yo. .     .    .  .oP `--.__`.__|__.'           Yo. .      .      ..oP
    `8o.  .  .  .  .o8'            |                `8o.  .   .   . .o8'
      `Y88booood888P'             =.=                 `Y88boooood888P'
          """"""                                          """""""



Would this diddle mean enough difference to declare it to be a totally 
different picture? Where do you draw the line?

                                                      __
                                                    .'  `.
                                                   /      \
                     o                            /        |
                      8ooooooooo               __________  |
                        ``8'                  /.-------. \ |
                         |`                   ||      ` ` |<
                          `|___________________\\      |||| )
                          / _____________________\ ._._.'.'(
                         / |                     \\ ``--'
                        //|`                      \\
                       //  `|                      \\
                      //   |`                      . \
         .d888888b.  //     `|                   .'.'\\  .d888888b.
      o8Y'   |    `Y//      |`                  / /   \\Y'    |  .`Y8o
    oY'   .  |   . //Y8o     `|               .'.'  dY'\\  .  |     /`Yo
   dY  \     |    //   Yb    |`              / /   dY.  \\    |    /  .Yb
  dY`.  \  . |  .//   . Yb    `|           .'.'   dY  `. \\ . | . /  /  Yb
 oY.  `. \   |  //  .'   Yb   |`          / /    oY-.   `.\\  |  / .'  .-Yo
o8  `-. ` \  | // .'  _.-'8b   `| =.=   .'.'    o8   `-.   \\ | / / .-'   8o
8Y`-._ `-. \ |//__________Y8___|`_____ / /      8P`-._  `-. \\|/.'-'  _.-'Y8
8------------@/__--------- 8   .'.  ..`.'       8------------\@)----------.8
8   _.-' . (`-.__`--.__   d8  /. . |..  \       8     .-'.' / | \ `. `--._ 8
8b-'  .-'  /(@   `--.__`--.__|....  .... |      8b.--' .'.'/  |  \`.`.    d8
Y8 .-'  .'/  `-._      `--.__|..   @     |      Y8   .' / / . | . \ \ `.  8Y
 Yb   .' /   |  \`-._   dP   |.... |.    |       Yb.'  / /    |    \ `. `dP
  Yb.'  /  . | . \   `-dP     \  . |... /         Yb .' /  .  |  .  \  \dP
   Yo. /     |    \  .oP `--.__`.__|__.'           Yo. /      |      \.oP
    `8o.  .  |  .  .o8'            |                `8o.  .   |   . .o8'
      `Y88booood888P'             =.=                 `Y88boooood888P'
          """"""                                          """""""


> who's to say I didn't draw this exactly the same way ten years ago. I
> mean it's a total of 28 characters square, it's a popular sport, and
> it's easy to make.
> 
> Not to say that what he wants to do is right, but is it legally wrong? I
> have not done many ASCII drawings, but I know for a fact all the small
> ones that I have done...like most of you...the odds that someone did
> them before me is VERY GREAT!
> 
> I'm not sure a court would enjoy the odds on this argument.
> 

mmmm.... like I said above - where do you draw the line?

> Just a new thought
> 

No, not new at all....  ;)

> Donovan
> 
> BTW, putting initials on your art would increse the odds that it is
> different from anything before. *S*

I found this new thing:  http://come.to/  and tried my initials on it:
http://come.to/vk  It was taken, and I didn't think much more about it,
until later the same day, when I saw the guy who "took it" in another
newsgroup... (btw, I got myself the new URL http://come.to/veronica )

> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>                                                   ______
>  Poems By Donovan - Home of DA QUIZ! and the     /  ___ \
>           Famous Secret Link Game.              |  / ,.\ |O    O
>   Conquer the Secret Link and win an award      | |  \d/ | \__/
>              for your homepage!                 |__\_____/-(..)
> http://www.geocities.com/Paris/LeftBank/6558/ _/_____________/ dwb


Talking of similarities, here's one of Hayley's sigs:



        _e-e_         Hayley Jane Wakenshaw           _e-e_
      _(-._.-)_      "Dosser Extraordinaire"        _(-._.-)_
   .-(  `---'  )-. **Flump's Ascii Collection**: .-(  `---'  )-.
  __\ \\\___/// /__     www.xs4all.nl/~klr      __\ \\\___/// /__
 '-._.'/M\ /M\`._,-`                           '-._.'/M\ /M\`._,-`
"I can never enjoy Sundays, because in the back of my mind I always
    know I have to go to school the next day." - Calvin & Hobbes


With two frogs, just like mine. Did I do something bad to her copyright,
or she to mine? Or did somebody else have the same idea ten years ago?
Where do you draw the line?

But I agree with Joris, this guy has gone too far:

: --
:      ##,
:     ,\, #
:     |/  ?
:     | ~ )\
:     /__/\ \____    Luiz Orsato
:     /   \_/    \   lor...@nutecnet.com.br
:    / <_ ____,_  \  Porto Alegre - RS - Brasil
: --/___/_____  \---------------------------
:             \/|



    What a creeeeep! He looks just like me
          if I'd wear fake hairs.
                       /
                 `,
              ___ #
              |/  ?
              | ^ )\
              /__/\ \____
         ,-   /   \_/    \
       |/|   / < _____ _> \
      -|.|--/___/  ,___/___\---------
       '-'      |\/           b'ger


-- 
              _                                         _
  __   ___.--'_`.  __   __                _           .'_`--.___   __
 ( _`.'. -   'o` ) \ \ / /__ _ _ ___ _ _ (_)__ __ _  ( 'o`   - .`.'_ )
 _\.'_'      _.-'   \ V / -_) '_/ _ \ ' \| / _/ _` |  `-._      `_`./_
( \`. )    //\`      \_/\___|_| \___/_||_|_\__\__,_|    '/\\    ( .'/ )
 \_`-'`---'\\__,                                       ,__//`---'`-'_/
  \`        `-\    uggc://jjj.yhqq.yhgu.fr/hfref/ix/    /-'        '/
   ` _____________________ r93...@fz.yhgu.fr ____________________ '
        LIKE MY SIG? GO HERE: http://www.surfplaza.com/figlet/

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From: Veronica Karlsson <dre...@on.spammer>
Subject: Re: New twist on Re: SigZag
Date: 1998/03/02
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