Re: About rendering ascii code in a .txt medium

Matthew Thomas wrote:
> > > First: typographical parameters are NOT `absolutely vital for the
> > > correct rendition of any ascii pic'.
> >
> > Wrong #1. Typographical parameters such as proportional or
> > non-proportional font ARE absolutely vital for the correct rendition
> > of any ascii pic.
> 
> All you have done here is simply say `you are wrong', without giving any
> reasons.

I have given you all the reasons why you are wrong, but you fail to
acknowledge those reasons. 

For example, in the above exchange, the reason given for making or breaking
ascii pics are typographical parameters (proportional/non-proportional fonts)
which is a clear rebuttal of your statement that typographical parameters are
not needed for rendering ascii pics.

> Here are mine (again): ASCII art assumes a fixed-width font,

This assumption is exactly the fatal flaw at the root of your arguments: the
ascii standard has no provision whatsoever for fixed-width or proportional
font. 

Fixed width and proportional are in the realm of typography, outside of the
ascii standard. For example, Arial and proportional are both ascii, just with
different typography.

> Pete, a debate requires a disagreement between two sides. People
> wondering why they see garbage aren't disagreeing with anyone, they just
> want to know how to set up their software.

I was referring to the two sides clashing on this newsgroup here, proportional
fonts vs. non-proportional fonts. A debate does not have to be between persons.

> As I said, most of the regulars here would disagree (as does the FAQ,
> but then I wrote it, so I suppose you'll argue that it doesn't really
> count ...). And that's what's important.

Ha ha, perhaps there is something called what's true, too! There are, BTW, the
other FAQs too, from which you took those myopic notions!

> Yes, HTML (<PRE></PRE> in particular) can be used to tell HTML-readers
> not to mess with ASCII art. 

Ah, and this is perhaps a fist understanding that ascii is supported in a
different medium than a .txt medium. In this case ascii is supported in a
.html medium! Moreover ...

... the html medium has more potential than the .txt medium
... there are many other media with even more potential which support ascii

... and surprise, surprise, in spite of all the different media,
    that's all ascii art!

> Note that the FONT tag, used to specify
> typeface, color, and size, is `deprecated' in HTML 4.0. To explain in a
> buzzword-free fashion, that means that the tag is on its way to becoming
> obsolete in a few years.

Don't worry about the details, better typographical tags will become
available, the web design community will demand those!

> Name one. Go on, I dare you to. Name a single font that is available on
> all platforms. Perhaps then you'll get my point.

Well, don't ask me for my word, ask a multi-platform professional for a better
word. On top of those fonts, these professionals are also using font
substitution maps for the other fonts. These maps are part and parcel of the
files that they send to service bureaus and the like. I think, in the long
run, these maps are a very good solution for ascii pics as well. (WHOOOOOAH,
that's even further out than typographical tags!)

> Yes, Pete, I am fighting for the future. In this case, I am unashamedly
> a member of the anti-HTML-in-e-mail-or-Usenet brigade, because I
> recognize the waste of time and bandwidth that HTML represents in these
> media.

I don't think you are fighting for the future at all, on the contrary, you are
fighting to maintain the status quo. For example, you like ascii to live
within the constraints of a .txt medium. 

Whereas I am pushing the envelope, for example, I like to use other media that
support ascii.

(FWIW, I have already left html behind me and moved on to better media)

> If they are clearly observable, why are you wasting your (and our) time
> stating them?

Well, clearly observable with wide open eyes, that is. I am beginning to open
some eyes, and that's good use of bandwidth!

> > So the numbers are growing, and if more than half the people on the
> > Internet use proportional fonts, then html tags will not only work, it
> > becomes an absolute necessity for ascii pics to be correctly displayed
> > to the majority of Internet users.
> You seem to assume that all e-mail/Usenet software which uses
> proportional fonts also recognizes HTML. Not so.

I did not say that either.

What I said is that html tags will become a necessity in an increasingly
proportional world (to correctly display ascii pics.)

But indeed (and perhaps to your dismay) more and more email and newsgroup
software will progress and will be html aware.

> ... Well, Pete, on the subject of whether or not `art form' and `medium'
> mean much the same thing, either Webster's dictionary is right, or you
> are. I'm siding with Webster on this one.

Well, you are just quoting generic definitions from a dictionary. You did not
even make an attempt to apply those generic definitions to ascii specifically.

Whereas I did apply the words artform and medium to ascii specifically, and
using my pathologically enlarge ego ;-)) I can even point to my website where
I have shown how the ascii artform can be practised in a variety of media!

=========================================================
[]   .oo     Visit the Gallery of the 'steins!         []
[]  (  -)   http://www3.sympatico.ca/petecasso/        []
[]   " "   Frogstein, who has a point behind his eyes  []
=========================================================

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