Beyond Lost 2/3

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                   --Interview with a Cyberlawyer: Dorsey Morrow Jr--
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>Well, first off tell me a bit about yourself and what you (any others?) do? 


I am a former software engineer.  I have been in private practice for
the past
three years.  I handle approximately 50% criminal & 50% civil (mostly

plaintiffs cases & computer contracts).  I represent several small and
medium 
sized software companies.  I work alone.



I have represented several hackers of the past year.  Fortunately I
was able  
to keep their cases from ever going to trial.  One case involved a
Ph.D.      
student in Electrical Engineering at a major University who was
hacking a     
system in Canada through an anon server.  He was tracked down and the
police  
were notified.  We kept it to a level where he was made to do 40 hrs
community
service by the University - no other record or punishment.  The
student was   
quite fortunate.



Before entering the law I worked in the computer industry for
approximately 10
years employed as a systems manager, programmer, analyst, and a
consultant.   
Enjoyed the work, but I realized, none of the attorneys I spoke with
knew     
anything about computer law.  I figured I would jump in and try it.



Anything else?



>You have defended hackers, but have you ever defended any phreakers, ones    
>who mess around with phones, Ma Bell, and the like?                          


No.  The closest I have come to those issues is advising drug defense

attorneys on federal agencies who access cell phone records (how its
done,    
what the legalities are, etc.).



>Do you have any feeling on knowledge and if and how it should be distrubted? 
>In other words, can you condone hacking?                                     


I disagree with the left wing hacker who feels everything belongs to
everybody
and knowledge should be free to all.  Seems to me the communist tried
that on 
a grand physical scale and their economy & government collapsed.
Knowledge is
acquired only after someone has  worked hard to achieve that
knowledge.  The  
knowledge someone acquires will eventually be public domain, but the
person   
who spent time, money and/or other resources acquiring that knowledge
must be 
rewarded, otherwise what incentive is there to acquire knowledge.  I
spent 5  
years in undergraduate school, 3.5 years in law school and over
$50,000 to get
the degrees I have.  Why would I do that if I then had to give up what
I knew 
for free.  There is no incentive.  The "knowledge is free" concept is

basically the same thing Karl Marx suggested decades ago.  However, as
the    
Russians found out, you must give people an incentive to work.  No one
works  
for the good of all society.  They work to improve their position in
life.    
Why would companies spend billions of dollars on R&D and then give
away what  
they discovered?  They certainly would not be in business long if they
did.   


When it comes to the government I feel that the knowledge/information
they    
have should be free and open.  But let me qualify that statement by
allowing
an exception for national security issues and personal information.
But for  
all other information - our tax dollars helped to create that
knowledge and we
therefore are entitled to it.



As to condoning hacking.  I feel that hacking serves a purpose.  You
learn how
things work.  You learn strengths & weaknesses of systems.  You become

knowledgeable.  Hackers should put their skills to work.  Work with
other     
hackers, learn their skills, attack their systems (with permission).
When you
are good enough, work with businesses to improve their security and
systems.  
Many businesses pay hackers to expose their weaknesses and help them
resolve  
problems.  Hacking is nothing more than pushing the envelope to
discover new  
methods of doing things.



However, hacking a system without permission is illegal.  I do not
condone    
unpermitted access to another's system.  This crosses the line from
hacking to
"cracking".



>Also, what is your ideal political structure?                                


Our current form of government with changes.  I would make it where
the       
government is not as involved in every aspect of our life.  The more

government does, the less it does well.  Our forefathers only intended
our    
government to do those things that we as individuals cannot do (i.e.
National 
Defense, build roads, provide public services).  It seems that present
day    
government has gotten into everything and we have the tax burden to
prove it. 
The federal government has also undertaken an area of law it has no
business  
in, criminal law.  When the constitution was written there were only
two      
crimes - Piracy & Treason.  The federal government now has criminal
laws for  
everything, basically duplicating the laws of each state.





>How do the statutes of limitations work on hacking?  After 8 years your      
>innocent or something like that?                                             


That is a very difficult question to answer because statutes of
limitation    
work differently from jurisdiction to jurisdiction and from law to
law.  In   
other words, what may be the statute of limitation for Alabama on a
particular
crime, may not be the same in Colorado, or in the Federal
jurisdiction.  Also,
by committing one illegal act you may have violated multiple statutes
with    
varying time limitations.



It would be safe to say that limitations on prosecution vary from as
short as 
1 year to indefinitely.



>How much do you bill an hour?                                                


My rates vary.  For non-computer related cases I charge $100/hr out of
court  
& $150/hr in court.  For computer related cases or intellectual
property      
(copyrights, trademarks) I charge $200/hr out of court & $300/hr in
court.    


>You being a lawyer, I was wondering if you would ever let morals get in your 
>way, or do you leave all personal preferences behind?                        


I attempt to leave personal opinions at home.  Every person in the
U.S. is    
entitled to legal representation and the best defense possible of any
criminal
charge.  There are certain cases that I refuse to take:  Sexual
assault (Rape)
and child abuse.  My personal feelings are too great for me to
overlook in    
those instances and I therefore refer them to another attorney.
Beyond that  
I feel I can give anybody the best defense possible regardless of my
feelings.


>Interesting.  Well, from the list of your degrees and what you told me, I    
>know you are a very qualified computer specialist.  You ever hack?  What's   
>the best hack you ever pulled off?                                           


I once hacked a university's computer at their request.  They were
locked     
out of a certain area of their system and could not get back in.  The
methods 
I used were nothing fancy and could have been done by anyone with a
basic     
knowledge of CIS, but the university was certainly grateful.



>Planning on making it to any confs., Beyond HOPE possibly?                   


Not in the near future.  My caseload has increased dramatically which
tends to
curtail extracurricular activities.



>Do you like the phone company?
I have not had any problems with them yet.  I guess as long as I pay
my phone 
bill they will leave me alone.



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