Displaying ASCII art Properly

I dont know if this has been discussed before but I think it would be
worth knowing how people in this group are viewing these posts.

Basically, Whether a particular piece of ASCII art looks FANTASTIC or
CRAP seems to rest entirely on what Font is being used. Now I'm not
talking about proportional fonts and I know this fact is nothing new
(Yes, I have read the FAQ) but I use a PC and Win95's "NOTEPAD" to do
my ASCII art and therefore my pictures look best with the FIXEDSYS
font (9pt). I use Forte's "FREE AGENT" to browse newsgroups and the
default font was something like "Times NEW ROMAN?!?" that wasn't even
Fixed-width! I changed my preferences of course so that my Browser
uses FIXEDSYS also but I recently pasted my ASCII F-16 into
"EUDORA-PRO" which I use for eMail ("Courier-NEW" font) and it looks
Totally Crap. Yes, yes, yes I KNOW you can set preferences there too,
as you can in practically every other package but there are 30 odd
people here where I work all using EUDORA PRO and they all have their
own favorite fonts set as a preference.) I also noticed on a lot of
WWW pages the COURIER font is used by default.

Does anyone else find this an irritation or is there a solution to the
problem? I think FIXEDSYS is a much better font than COURIER for ASCII
art but I'm not yet quite experienced enough to make that argument
stick.

Ultimately I think it would benefit the piece of artwork if the artist
just added a note somewhere on the message that said which font was
used to create it (and maybe point size, but I don't think that makes
much difference). It would just mean other users could see it in
exactly the same way. Either that or a "Standard" font and size is
agreed upon although I can guarentee that will never work as everyone
has their own favorite font they won't want to stop using.

I would appreciate any comments on this subject as I think it's an
important one, and although the FAQ points out its existance it
doesn't really offer any solutions.

Sorry if this problem has already been discussed and resolved but us
new-comers need to be made aware of it.

:nathaN       

+-=*@*=-=*@*=-=*@*=-=*@*=-=*@*=-=*@*="No, I don't have a SIG"-=*@*=+
|                                                - Naughty 1998    |
+@*=-=*@*=-=*@*=-=*@*=-=*@*=-=*@*=-=*@*=-=*@*=-=*@*=-=*@*=-=*@*=-=*+

Naughty wrote:
> 
> I dont know if this has been discussed before but I think it would be
> worth knowing how people in this group are viewing these posts.
> 
> Basically, Whether a particular piece of ASCII art looks FANTASTIC or
> CRAP seems to rest entirely on what Font is being used. Now I'm not
[Snip.....]
> I would appreciate any comments on this subject as I think it's an
> important one, and although the FAQ points out its existance it
> doesn't really offer any solutions.
> 
> Sorry if this problem has already been discussed and resolved but us
> new-comers need to be made aware of it.
> 
> :nathaN
> 
I use Topaz-new for ascii art.I think it is just cooliest font for ascii
art.Its pretty crappy for text untill ya get used to it,also ya dont want to
see it below 10 point.I use it in netscape to view messages and i also have
a notepad replacement called newpad that i also use because it allows
different fonts.
                            ______
                           /)    (\
                          //      \\ 
                         / \      / \
                         \  \    /  / 
                          \  \__/  /
                           \ /  \ /
                           //    \\
                          (/      \)
                           \      /
                            \____/

 
                      THE                  
                  <\PRINCE />           
        /\         \\     //         /\   
       /  \         \\   //         /  \        
      / /\/        /""""""\         \/\ \      
     / /  SEE HIS (  /   \ \  SEE HIS  \ \   
     \ \   FACE    \/<> <>\/   SMILE   / /       
      \ \          /   W   \          / /    
       \ \        /\_|||||_/\        / /      
       /  \      //   |||   \\      /  \       
      / /\ \    //     '     \\    / /\ \        
     / / / /   </ TIME TO DIE \>   \ \ \ \     
     \ \/  \_______________________/  \/ /
      \_________________________________/
         kro...@inspace.net
          Remove no.to.spam to reply
 http://www.inspace.net/~carcher/krogg/aani.htm
  Gory javascript animations for your enjoyment

Naughty (nat...@virtek.com) wrote:
: Does anyone else find this an irritation or is there a solution to the
: problem? I think FIXEDSYS is a much better font than COURIER for ASCII
: art but I'm not yet quite experienced enough to make that argument
: stick.

Indeed. The major problem is serif/sans-serif, although many other
differences exist. My "solutions":

 1. Look at different fonts, note how the letter shapes vary, and
    use this information to make your ascii art as compatible with
    different fonts as possible.
 2. If it really requires a certain font, add a note.
 
Also:

 3. When putting ascii art on the WWW, use style sheets to suggest
    a font.

--  __,,,------._
 ,-/|            `-.  Ilmari Karonen (ilt...@sci.fi) ^ All opinions expressed
/,  '\,     `.  ,|"-;;.__ http://www.sci.fi/~iltzu/ | in this message are my
/ ' 4(_,-_,-"_,/.'   `'--' ,------------------------' own. If you want me to
"`-(_,-"" `-' (,' itz      | make some for you too, you should pay for them!

On Tue, 31 Mar 1998 05:46:47 -0500, Krogg
<kro...@inspace.net> wrote:

>"...I use Topaz-new for ascii art.I think it is just cooliest font for ascii
>art.Its pretty crappy for text untill ya get used to it,also ya dont want to
>see it below 10 point.I use it in netscape to view messages and i also have
>a notepad replacement called newpad that i also use because it allows
>different fonts..."

I'm confused. I've never heard of TOPAZ before (and we have 1000's of
fonts where I work) so I did an internet search and it appears to be
an Amiga font. Are you an Amiga user Krogg? If so, I don't understand
how you use Netscape and Notepad(or it's replacement as the case may
be)?
I wonder how many other obscure fonts people are using because that,
and the possible multi-platform nature of this group only serves to
increase this "ASCII font-viewing problem".

:nathaN

ilt...@sci.fi (Ilmari Karonen) wrote:

>Naughty (nat...@virtek.com) wrote:
>: Does anyone else find this an irritation or is there a solution to the
>: problem? I think FIXEDSYS is a much better font than COURIER for ASCII
>: art but I'm not yet quite experienced enough to make that argument
>: stick.

>Indeed. The major problem is serif/sans-serif, although many other
>differences exist. My "solutions":

> 1. Look at different fonts, note how the letter shapes vary, and
>    use this information to make your ascii art as compatible with
>    different fonts as possible.
> 2. If it really requires a certain font, add a note.

Just wanna add to that...

Whether the picture is viewed in a serif or a sans-serif font is particularly
important for - small - line-style ASCII like your phoenix (it's beautiful btw,
even in Courier New :)
But there's even a bigger "problem", I guess: the fact that certain glyphs
(tilde, period) aren't placed at the same height in different font types...

Creating solid style pics one faces other kinds of problems:

1. White text on dark background or dark text on white background.
2. Different fonts have different proportions (eg width!). And solid-style
   is often used to create "realistic" ASCII pics. So correct proportions
   count.

I hope I can clarify these points by comparing 2 examples. Both are replys
to a request by someone who wanted an ASCIIfied Linux logo to use it on a login
screen. The first one is an alteration of Joan's penguin by Andreas Freise,
the second one is my attempt.

              a8888b.
             d888888b.
             8P"YP"Y88
             8|o||o|88
             8'    .88
             8`._.' Y8.
            d/      `8b.
           dP   .    Y8b.
          d8:'  "  `::88b
         d8"         'Y88b
        :8P    '      :888
         8a.   :     _a88P
       ._/"Yaa_:   .| 88P|
  jgs  \    YP"    `| 8P  `.
  a:f  /     \.___.d|    .'
       `--..__)8888P`._.'


                 .88888888:.
                88888888.88888.
              .8888888888888888.
              888888888888888888
              88' _`88'_  `88888
              88 88 88 88  88888
              88_88_::_88_:88888
              88:::,::,:::::8888
              88`:::::::::'`8888
             .88  `::::'    8:88.
            8888            `8:888.
          .8888'             `888888.
         .8888:..  .::.  ...:'8888888:.
        .8888.'     :'     `'::`88:88888
       .8888        '         `.888:8888.
      888:8         .           888:88888
    .888:88        .:           888:88888:
    8888888.       ::           88:888888
    `.::.888.      ::          .88888888
   .::::::.888.    ::         :::`8888'.:.
  ::::::::::.888   '         .::::::::::::
  ::::::::::::.8    '      .:8::::::::::::.
 .::::::::::::::.        .:888:::::::::::::
 :::::::::::::::88:.__..:88888:::::::::::'
  `'.:::::::::::88888888888.88:::::::::'
        `':::_:' -- '' -'-' `':_::::'`


1. Dunno about Andreas, but I did not realize "Linux" and "login screen"
   meant that the requester was expecting to get a penguin which looks
   OK in white text on black background. So this guy was very surprised
   he only received penguins in negative.
2. Andreas' penguin looks a bit skinny and underfed in my Notepad.
   Wouldn't dare to cuddle it... But Andreas (uses emacs) told me my
   penguin looks like it could use some exercise.

(there's more to this: different fonts make different greyscale palettes
for example)

-------
So I guess when you want other people to enjoy your pictures the way you
want them to, you should at least specify which font (face + size + color)
was used. It's been done before, not often though...

> 
>Also:

> 3. When putting ascii art on the WWW, use style sheets to suggest
>    a font.

Yes! CSS is great!! :)

Bye,
    _ 
 /\//_
 `7/\/
 _T_\__o-,_o-,_o-,___-^__._____________________ mic at dataweb dot nl
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