Earliest published ambigram?

A friend of mine asked for the earliest historical example of an ambigram.

To make this a potentially answerable question, suppose we require that
an ambigram (1) consist of text and (2) exhibit no other legible reading
(under nontrivial rotation or reflection) in its canonical representation,
but only in a distorted representation.  Suppose further that we ask
for the earliest *published* or *recorded* example (or description of
an example, to allow for artwork that appeared in an exhibition that we
have a record of, even if no printed reproduction of the artwork was
ever produced).  Let us not, however, put any restrictions on which
language is used.

Any information on this?
-- 
Tim Chow       tchow-at-alum-dot-mit-dot-edu
The range of our projectiles---even ... the artillery---however great, will
never exceed four of those miles of which as many thousand separate us from
the center of the earth.  ---Galileo, Dialogues Concerning Two New Sciences

tch...@lsa.umich.edu wrote:
> A friend of mine asked for the earliest historical example of an ambigram.
>
> To make this a potentially answerable question, suppose we require that
> an ambigram (1) consist of text and (2) exhibit no other legible reading
> (under nontrivial rotation or reflection) in its canonical representation,
> but only in a distorted representation.  Suppose further that we ask
> for the earliest *published* or *recorded* example (or description of
> an example, to allow for artwork that appeared in an exhibition that we
> have a record of, even if no printed reproduction of the artwork was
> ever produced).  Let us not, however, put any restrictions on which
> language is used.
>
> Any information on this?
> --
> Tim Chow       tchow-at-alum-dot-mit-dot-edu
> The range of our projectiles---even ... the artillery---however great, will
> never exceed four of those miles of which as many thousand separate us from
> the center of the earth.  ---Galileo, Dialogues Concerning Two New Sciences

Sorry, I don't have any information about this.  Let us know if you
find out!

A friend of mine asked for the earliest historical example of an
ambigram.

To make this a potentially answerable question, suppose we require that
an ambigram (1) consist of text and (2) exhibit no other legible
reading (under nontrivial rotation or reflection) in its canonical
representation, but only in a distorted representation.  Suppose
further that we ask for the earliest *published* or *recorded* example
(or description of an example, to allow for artwork that appeared in an
exhibition that we have a record of, even if no printed reproduction of
the artwork was ever produced).  Let us not, however, put any
restrictions on which
language is used.

Any information on this?

****************

I don't have any info either.  My impression is that it would be a real
mess to research, hopefully someone's done it already.  Maybe
Hofstadter has, seeing as how he is quite into them.

- Don

In article <4391e12d$0$566$b45...@senator-bedfellow.mit.edu>,
 <tch...@lsa.umich.edu> wrote:
>A friend of mine asked for the earliest historical example of an ambigram.
>
>To make this a potentially answerable question, suppose we require that
>an ambigram (1) consist of text and (2) exhibit no other legible reading
>(under nontrivial rotation or reflection) in its canonical representation,
>but only in a distorted representation.  Suppose further that we ask
>for the earliest *published* or *recorded* example (or description of
>an example, to allow for artwork that appeared in an exhibition that we
>have a record of, even if no printed reproduction of the artwork was
>ever produced).  Let us not, however, put any restrictions on which
>language is used.
>
>Any information on this?

Hi. I'm not sure of your qualifications, but I might have a candidate.
I doubt it's the first though, but your quest hasn't generated a lot
of responses.

With requirement (2) I presume you mean to eliminate what might be
considered naturally-occurring ambigrams, words in ordinary form that
can be read in more than one way, like "I" or "MOM" that do not require
any creative effort to produce. The one I have in mind is borderline.

The ambigram -- not called that, but its reason for being presented,
its property of rotational symmetry, was called out in the text -- was
a cursive rendition of the word "chump". I have reproduced it from memory
here: <http://www.01101001.com/images/chump.gif>.

(For those with a hunger, hundreds of my ambigrams are here:
<http://www.01101001.com/ambigrams>.)

Is it canonical form? I don't think so. I believe some (admittedly
slight) care has to be executed in its rendering or the "p" viewed
upside-down will not form a "c" and part of an "h".

Sadly, I cannot provide a citation. I can only estimate its age. It
was in a book of curiosities for children that I read in the 1950s. It
was a hand-me-down from my brother, so it was probably printed in the
'40s. Were a gun placed to my head and a title demanded, I might guess
something like "101 Curiosities for Children" or some such number. The
probability of that actually being the title, or even of any of those
words actually appearing in the title, is extremely low. It was mainly
a list of odd facts, puzzles and stories. I remember little else about
it. Possibly, it had a one- or two-page version of the tale of Kaspar
Hauser.

A good researcher might be able to find it, and this is hopefully
a helpful clue to anyone who might one day be digging for this.

Has anyone else run into this book, this "chump", or an earlier
deliberate ambigram?
-- 
Hud Nordin <hu...@pobox.com> Silicon Valley

Hud Nordin wrote:
> In article <4391e12d$0$566$b45...@senator-bedfellow.mit.edu>,
>  <tch...@lsa.umich.edu> wrote:
> 
>>A friend of mine asked for the earliest historical example of an ambigram.
<snip>
>>Any information on this?
> 
> 
> Hi. I'm not sure of your qualifications, but I might have a candidate.
<snip>
> Has anyone else run into this book, this "chump", or an earlier
> deliberate ambigram?

I've never heard of the book, but I have seen the "chump" thing before. 
  It was in an old "Games" magazine... a quick google says Games was 
first published in 1977, so that's probably of no help.  I don't recall 
if they said where they got it, either.

Hud Nordin schrieb:

> (For those with a hunger, hundreds of my ambigrams are here:
> <http://www.01101001.com/ambigrams>.)

Wonderful! Never knew about that art. Thank you!

Best regards and a Happy New Year,
Amber Gram

(Ahemm: I meant to write: Rainer Rosenthal, r.r...@web.de)

Is there any practical use for an ambigram?

don...@hotmail.com said:

> Is there any practical use for an ambigram?

By a curious coincidence, I came across an ambigram in a frozen lake a 
couple of days ago. My son spotted a small brown cylindrical object frozen 
into the ice, and identified it as a bottletop. Curious to know whether the 
bottle was still attached(!), he asked me to retrieve the top. It wasn't 
easy, but I managed it. No, no bottle, but there was a consolation prize. 
The logo on the bottle-top read VISTA - and this was ambigrammed so that it 
read the same if you turned the top around by 180 degrees.

So - yes, there's a "practical" use: marketing!

-- 
Richard Heathfield
"Usenet is a strange place" - dmr 29/7/1999
http://www.cpax.org.uk
email: rjh at above domain (but drop the www, obviously)

Richard Heathfield wrote:
> don...@hotmail.com said:
>
> > Is there any practical use for an ambigram?
>
> By a curious coincidence, I came across an ambigram in a frozen lake a
> couple of days ago. My son spotted a small brown cylindrical object frozen
> into the ice, and identified it as a bottletop. Curious to know whether the
> bottle was still attached(!), he asked me to retrieve the top. It wasn't
> easy, but I managed it. No, no bottle, but there was a consolation prize.
> The logo on the bottle-top read VISTA - and this was ambigrammed so that it
> read the same if you turned the top around by 180 degrees.
>
> So - yes, there's a "practical" use: marketing!
>
> --
> Richard Heathfield
> "Usenet is a strange place" - dmr 29/7/1999
> http://www.cpax.org.uk
> email: rjh at above domain (but drop the www, obviously)

******************

Ok, hadn't thought of that.  Sometimes I think of all the highly
abstract mathematics invented/discovered, and how if possibly all of it
has a practical use in a sufficiently advanced technology.  Which would
be a technology advanced beyond anything we could imagine at this
point.

Don

In article <41k...@individual.net>,
Rainer Rosenthal  <r.r...@web.de> wrote:
>Hud Nordin schrieb:
>> <http://www.01101001.com/ambigrams>.)
>Wonderful! Never knew about that art. Thank you!

Thanks. Your name sent me on a quest. It's just a sketch. It still
needs polishing which I will try to get to some day. It's in my to-do
pile. Thanks for the puzzle.

Have a cookie -- a Rainer ambigram:
<http://www.01101001.com/temporary/rainer.gif>

Happy new year.

(Posted and mailed.)
-- 
Hud Nordin <hu...@pobox.com> Silicon Valley

Hud Nordin wrote:
 
> (For those with a hunger, hundreds of my ambigrams are here:
> <http://www.01101001.com/ambigrams>.)

Somebody seems to have answered by mail - thanks so much.
But ... unfortunately this mail had been considered spam
by my provider and I was too quick, when I cleared that
folder. I recognized the word ambigram in the subject
line ... and it was gone. May I ask the sender to send me
his or mail again, please?

Well, here is my little story about ambigrams (a term I never
heard of before) and their relationship to advertising:
When I was in a larger city some months ago (Zurich) I left
the bus and looked into the interesting new world around me.
Everything was new to me and I was absorbed by all the new
things I saw. And as I was standing in the middle of a road,
I had to watch for the traffic light etc. The bus drove
away and above all my new impressions I received a new one:
At the window of the bus there had been an advertisement of
some tourist organization and there was written in large
green letters

                  A T J A M

While strolling thru the streets of Zurich I always wondered
about that marvellous "Atjam", an island or country I never
had heard of before. It took me quite a while until suddenly
I *knew* that in fact it was an island! But written in that
funny "ambigrammar". (I did post that riddle shortly after-
wards in de.rec.denksport - and I did receive the solution
immediatly, which was astonishing for me).

Wishing all the best for 2006 up to 9005 ;-)
Rainer Rosenthal
r.r...@web.de

> Have a cookie -- a Rainer ambigram:
> <http://www.01101001.com/temporary/rainer.gif>
> 
> Happy new year.

WOW!

Many thanks for that beautiful ambigram! What a
nice start into the new year.

Thanks a lot for this most interesting and
valuable present!

Best regards and a Happy New Year,
Rainer

Rainer Rosenthal wrote:
> Hud Nordin wrote:
>
> > (For those with a hunger, hundreds of my ambigrams are here:
> > <http://www.01101001.com/ambigrams>.)
>
> Somebody seems to have answered by mail - thanks so much.
> But ... unfortunately this mail had been considered spam
> by my provider and I was too quick, when I cleared that
> folder. I recognized the word ambigram in the subject
> line ... and it was gone. May I ask the sender to send me
> his or mail again, please?
>
> Well, here is my little story about ambigrams (a term I never
> heard of before) and their relationship to advertising:
> When I was in a larger city some months ago (Zurich) I left
> the bus and looked into the interesting new world around me.
> Everything was new to me and I was absorbed by all the new
> things I saw. And as I was standing in the middle of a road,
> I had to watch for the traffic light etc. The bus drove
> away and above all my new impressions I received a new one:
> At the window of the bus there had been an advertisement of
> some tourist organization and there was written in large
> green letters
>
>                   A T J A M
>
> While strolling thru the streets of Zurich I always wondered
> about that marvellous "Atjam", an island or country I never
> had heard of before. It took me quite a while until suddenly
> I *knew* that in fact it was an island! But written in that
> funny "ambigrammar". (I did post that riddle shortly after-
> wards in de.rec.denksport - and I did receive the solution
> immediatly, which was astonishing for me).
>
> Wishing all the best for 2006 up to 9005 ;-)
> Rainer Rosenthal
> r.r...@web.de

That's a good one!

I've never been there, but somehow I feel absolutely certain that the
first ambigram was published in 842 BC by a Phoenician falcon-meister
near Mellieha Bay.

I've never been there, but somehow I feel absolutely certain that the
first ambigram was published in 842 BC by a Phoenician falcon-meister
near Mellieha Bay.

**********

 Is any record of it extant, Gala???  Can you give us a url??????

don...@hotmail.com wrote:
> I've never been there, but somehow I feel absolutely certain that the
> first ambigram was published in 842 BC by a Phoenician falcon-meister
> near Mellieha Bay.
>
> **********
>
>  Is any record of it extant, Gala???  Can you give us a url??????

The original media was destroyed during the first Punic War.  A backup
copy survived until 1864 when it was accidentally mistaken for lutefisk
and eaten by a sailor named Sven from Gottsburg.  Sven reported that it
tasted much better than the lutefisk he had eaten for Christmas eve
dinner the previous year in 1863.  Unfortunately he didn't notice the
ambigram since he had never learned to read Phoenician.  More's the
pity.

Why do you want an url?   We don't get many titled aristocrats here in
Las Vegas except for Elvis impersonators, and they all like to think of
themselves as the King.  John Wayne stayed at Caesars Palace once, but
he was just a dook.  I suppose I could dig up an url or a barryn if you
really want one.  Snoopy was always trying to shoot down a red one, if
I remember correctly.  Are you trying to find one to match your drapes,
or doesn't the color matter?

I'll forgive you for spelling my name as if I were a party, but only
because it's New Years Day and you don't like football.   I've been
home sneezing all day and I don't like football either.

Regards,
Gayla

My appy-polly-loggies, since I'm one of those mentally ill people we've
been discussing, my mammary is a bit shakey and I really did think
urine name is Gala, even though I knew before that it is Gayla, but
I've never been good at names, I've had to come up with all these ruses
when I see people to avoid calling them by name, or maybe it's
incipient Altzy's, or who knows, why am I being so defensive, why don't
I just admit to myself that I got your name wrong, and why am I
referring to myself, that's a Hofstadter self-reference thing, and ewe
no the very best, most powerful form of self referece (IMHO) is to use
intelligence to boot-up ever higher levels of intelligence, another is
the mind studying the mind, and Dr. Hofstadter stated in one of his
books that he thinks self-reference, and general reference, is the key
to Humanity's ever spiraling upwards advancement to infinite
knowledege, and you know - I megaditto that concept.

You're too creative for me.  I can't compete.  I'll have to go away,
shame-faced, and cry in my pillow.  You're just too good, Layla.  You
win.

- Ron

don...@hotmail.com wrote:
> My appy-polly-loggies, since I'm one of those mentally ill people we've
> been discussing, my mammary is a bit shakey and I really did think
> urine name is Gala, even though I knew before that it is Gayla, but
> I've never been good at names, I've had to come up with all these ruses
> when I see people to avoid calling them by name, or maybe it's
> incipient Altzy's, or who knows, why am I being so defensive, why don't
> I just admit to myself that I got your name wrong, and why am I
> referring to myself, that's a Hofstadter self-reference thing, and ewe
> no the very best, most powerful form of self referece (IMHO) is to use
> intelligence to boot-up ever higher levels of intelligence, another is
> the mind studying the mind, and Dr. Hofstadter stated in one of his
> books that he thinks self-reference, and general reference, is the key
> to Humanity's ever spiraling upwards advancement to infinite
> knowledege, and you know - I megaditto that concept.
>
> You're too creative for me.  I can't compete.  I'll have to go away,
> shame-faced, and cry in my pillow.  You're just too good, Layla.  You
> win.
>
> - Ron

Tee hee!   That was very good, so you don't need to go away after all.
 The signature is brilliant.

I have the same problem with remembering the names of people, and
unfortunately I have trouble remembering faces too.  But I usually
remember all of the gossip I've heard about everyone, it's just a
matter of figuring out which stories go with which people.  Go figure.

> I have the same problem with remembering the names of people, and
> unfortunately I have trouble remembering faces too.  But I usually
> remember all of the gossip I've heard about everyone, it's just a
> matter of figuring out which stories go with which people.  Go figure.

I've put a lot of effort into just doing without having to know
someone's name who I run across for the second time;  just get along
during the conversation without it.  People are so offended if you
don't remember their name.  And you're right about having to figure out
who you've told what to.  It starts getting away from you; you not only
have to remember the person and the story or joke but then you have to
form these huge lists of who you've told what to.  Or else you get into
the protocol of saying "Now stop me if I've told you this....."  (Have
I told you all this before, I mean, the subject matter of this note????
 Please stop me if I did.")

I don't know.  Life is too complicated.  Why can't it be nice and
simple?  Why all this complexity?  I've said this before , and I'll say
it again (please stop me if you've already heard it):  What we need is
a really simple, basic Theory of Complexity.  That'll solve all our
problems.  (But once all your problems are solved what do you do
then??? That's a meta-problem).

Don

don...@hotmail.com wrote:
> > I have the same problem with remembering the names of people, and
> > unfortunately I have trouble remembering faces too.  But I usually
> > remember all of the gossip I've heard about everyone, it's just a
> > matter of figuring out which stories go with which people.  Go figure.
>
> I've put a lot of effort into just doing without having to know
> someone's name who I run across for the second time;  just get along
> during the conversation without it.  People are so offended if you
> don't remember their name.  And you're right about having to figure out
> who you've told what to.  It starts getting away from you; you not only
> have to remember the person and the story or joke but then you have to
> form these huge lists of who you've told what to.  Or else you get into
> the protocol of saying "Now stop me if I've told you this....."  (Have
> I told you all this before, I mean, the subject matter of this note????
>  Please stop me if I did.")
>
> I don't know.  Life is too complicated.  Why can't it be nice and
> simple?  Why all this complexity?  I've said this before , and I'll say
> it again (please stop me if you've already heard it):  What we need is
> a really simple, basic Theory of Complexity.  That'll solve all our
> problems.  (But once all your problems are solved what do you do
> then??? That's a meta-problem).
>
> Don

I have a Theory of Complexity.  It goes like this:  Things are complex.
 That's the way reality always is, like it or not.  If things start
looking too simple, that's a sure sign that the observer is either not
doing a good job of paying attention or is giving in to delusions of
simplicity.  You don't really have to worry about this as long as
everything remains confusing to you.  You should start worrying
whenever you suddenly realize that it all makes sense.

Sometimes I wish that I had better social skills and lots of friends,
but we all muddle along doing the best that we can with our various
skills and handicaps.

(By the way, I wasn't truly offended by your mispelling of my name.  I
just can never resist an opportunity to make a wisecrack.  Puns are
especially tempting, although I'm not sure why.  Sort of like
chocolate.)

-Gayla

I have a Theory of Complexity.  It goes like this:  Things are complex.
 That's the way reality always is, like it or not.  If things start
looking too simple, that's a sure sign that the observer is either not
doing a good job of paying attention or is giving in to delusions of
simplicity.  You don't really have to worry about this as long as
everything remains confusing to you.  You should start worrying
whenever you suddenly realize that it all makes sense.

Oh, oh.  I've had spells where it all makes sense.  Then I get some
sleep and that all goes away.

The dealy with complexity it that we'll be spared of having it all make
sense forever because complexity is like a carrot dangled on a stick
out in front of a donkey.  You can never achieve resolving it.  But the
best way (according to Hof) to try to resolve it is by analogy, like
the donkey dangle analogy.

Sometimes I wish that I had better social skills and lots of friends,
but we all muddle along doing the best that we can with our various
skills and handicaps.

Amen.  But it helps to be a loner and miscreant if people avoid you.
But maybe that's from being a loner and miscreant?

(By the way, I wasn't truly offended by your mispelling of my name.  I
just can never resist an opportunity to make a wisecrack.  Puns are
especially tempting, although I'm not sure why.  Sort of like
chocolate.)

Yes, I did realize that.  I just being overly apologetic for effect.
You may call me Ron.

Ron

GQrivy wrote:
> don...@hotmail.com wrote:
> 
>>I've never been there, but somehow I feel absolutely certain that the
>>first ambigram was published in 842 BC by a Phoenician falcon-meister
>>near Mellieha Bay.
>>
>>**********
>>
>> Is any record of it extant, Gala???  Can you give us a url??????
> 
> 
> The original media was destroyed during the first Punic War.  A backup
> copy survived until 1864 when it was accidentally mistaken for lutefisk
> and eaten by a sailor named Sven from Gottsburg.  Sven reported that it
> tasted much better than the lutefisk he had eaten for Christmas eve
> dinner the previous year in 1863.  Unfortunately he didn't notice the
> ambigram since he had never learned to read Phoenician.  More's the
> pity.
> 
> Why do you want an url?   We don't get many titled aristocrats here in
> Las Vegas except for Elvis impersonators, and they all like to think of
> themselves as the King.  John Wayne stayed at Caesars Palace once, but
> he was just a dook.  I suppose I could dig up an url or a barryn if you
> really want one.  Snoopy was always trying to shoot down a red one, if
> I remember correctly.  Are you trying to find one to match your drapes,
> or doesn't the color matter?
> 
> I'll forgive you for spelling my name as if I were a party, but only
> because it's New Years Day and you don't like football.   I've been
> home sneezing all day and I don't like football either.
> 

I wish I was as funny a writer as you are...

-- 
Tian
Saturday evening I took down the $5 bill with Lincoln on it above
my desk and replaced it with a half hour Berkeley Bread note. The
front of the note is currently up, featuring half a loaf of bread.
http://tian.greens.org