Help save ascii art from destruction by variable fonts

John Debruyn (jde...@access.usa.net) wrote:
> I put the ascii art up on the Web using the HTML <pre> code.  My browser
> which is set to a fixed width font set picked the item up really well,
> but again the other beta testers came up with unintelligible mix mash.
> You can take a look at what I am working with at:

> http://www.usa.net/~jdebruyn/postcard.html

The PRE tag in HTML is defined such that browsers are supposed to use
fixed width fonts.  PRE is used to create tables if your browser doesn't
support such functions.  If a browser is not using fixed width fonts for
text inside a PRE tag, then something is wrong with that browser and it is
not following the HTML standard.  People should complain to the browser
manufacturer about that.

L Michaels
http://members.aol.com/lauram3017/index.html

The ascii art audience must be dwindling because ascii art is becoming
more difficult to communicate.  The problem is the continuing growth of
the number of email, newsgroup and Web users who have their email
reader/editors and WWW browsers set to variable width character fonts.  On 
AOL for example users don't have a choice of a fixed width font setting
for their email or the AOL browser.

I did a beta test of an email picture post card with a picture using ascii
art.  To my dismay most of the beta testers did not have their email
reader/editors set to the traditional fixed width font (where Ms and Ns
are the same width) so that the ascii art came through to them as an
unintelligible mix mash.  (This also explains why I am seeing fewer and
fewer signature lines that use ascii art--many correspondents cannot make
heads or tails of it.) 

I put the ascii art up on the Web using the HTML <pre> code.  My browser
which is set to a fixed width font set picked the item up really well,
but again the other beta testers came up with unintelligible mix mash.
You can take a look at what I am working with at:

http://www.usa.net/~jdebruyn/postcard.html

Does any one have a lead to software that can be used to convert
"traditional" (not grey scale) ascii art into a gif or jpeg so that we can
put the ascii art up as a graphic image.  That way the addressees of the
card who think they got mix mash can go to the graphic via the Web URL. 

I was thinking that computer fax technology could be used to convert
a page of ascii art into a graphic of some kind.  Your thoughts
appreciated.

Thanks,

John

-- John DeBruyn, Denver, Colorado, The Mile High City, USA 
(jde...@usa.net)

to digitize your ascii 
----------------------
You could print out your ascii art
(watch out for page breaks) in fixed font,
or any font that resembles your intended art,
then scan the prints using a scanner.
Alternatively you could take sreen shots
and a display of your ascii picture by
various screen capture routines that comes along
with a usual image processing software.
(lviewpro in the pc, has this)

about variable font size and ascii art
--------------------------------------
well our fears are well grounded.
The future of ascii art is in danger.
Because browsers are becoming more sophisticated
to display the text in the font the users choose to.

let me describe what i understand
of this scenario.

Usually ascii is displayed in fixed font.
This fixed font itself has got different shapes in
different computers and printers.
Fixed font on my display wont b exactly equal
to the fixed font of your display.
True type fonts are a class of fonts
that will guarantee that they would look alike
exactly in any machine or printer.
So as ascii artists,
we need to find a true type font
that looks almost similar to a fixed font.
Courier New is an example of such a font,
but I haven't found that it is satisfactory.
It has too much inter line distance.
And if ascii artists and ascii viewers stick to
that true type font, then only we can
guarantee picture correctness.
This is too much to ask and against
the principles of ascii.

I also include a small article which
I had written long back on ascii art
in my next post.



						-koshy george
  



John Debruyn (jde...@access.usa.net) wrote:
: The ascii art audience must be dwindling because ascii art is becoming
: more difficult to communicate.  The problem is the continuing growth of
: the number of email, newsgroup and Web users who have their email
: reader/editors and WWW browsers set to variable width character fonts.  On 
: AOL for example users don't have a choice of a fixed width font setting
: for their email or the AOL browser.

: I did a beta test of an email picture post card with a picture using ascii
: art.  To my dismay most of the beta testers did not have their email
: reader/editors set to the traditional fixed width font (where Ms and Ns
: are the same width) so that the ascii art came through to them as an
: unintelligible mix mash.  (This also explains why I am seeing fewer and
: fewer signature lines that use ascii art--many correspondents cannot make
: heads or tails of it.) 

: I put the ascii art up on the Web using the HTML <pre> code.  My browser
: which is set to a fixed width font set picked the item up really well,
: but again the other beta testers came up with unintelligible mix mash.
: You can take a look at what I am working with at:

: http://www.usa.net/~jdebruyn/postcard.html

: Does any one have a lead to software that can be used to convert
: "traditional" (not grey scale) ascii art into a gif or jpeg so that we can
: put the ascii art up as a graphic image.  That way the addressees of the
: card who think they got mix mash can go to the graphic via the Web URL. 

: I was thinking that computer fax technology could be used to convert
: a page of ascii art into a graphic of some kind.  Your thoughts
: appreciated.

: Thanks,

: John

: -- John DeBruyn, Denver, Colorado, The Mile High City, USA 
: (jde...@usa.net)


--
<(o)> Koshy George, <(o)> http://www.serv.net/~kgeorge <(o)>

I dare to say, that the appropriate WWW browser for alt.ascii-art
is lynx. It is free, and I have chosen it for speed. Besides, it 
skips all the advertisments! It never distorts ASCII pictures.

General Lynx information:     http://lynx.browser.org/
Lynx source distribution:     http://www.crl.com/~subir/lynx/sources.html
Lynx binary distribution:     http://www.crl.com/~subir/lynx/binaries.html
Lynx 2.6 documentation:       http://www.crl.com/~subir/lynx/2.6/
<URL:http://lynx.browser.org/>

On 24 Dec 1996, Laura Michaels wrote:

> John Debruyn (jde...@access.usa.net) wrote:
> > I put the ascii art up on the Web using the HTML <pre> code.  My browser
> > which is set to a fixed width font set picked the item up really well,
> > but again the other beta testers came up with unintelligible mix mash.
> > You can take a look at what I am working with at:
> 
> > http://www.usa.net/~jdebruyn/postcard.html
> 
> The PRE tag in HTML is defined such that browsers are supposed to use
> fixed width fonts.  PRE is used to create tables if your browser doesn't
> support such functions.  If a browser is not using fixed width fonts for
> text inside a PRE tag, then something is wrong with that browser and it is
> not following the HTML standard.  People should complain to the browser
> manufacturer about that.
> 
> L Michaels
> http://members.aol.com/lauram3017/index.html
> 
> 

From the Holy Land, with respect
 /\ /\   Vladimir A. Pertsel            S/W  engineer
((ovo))        E-mail:           \|/   Sagantec Israel
():::() vol...@sagantec.co.il (o o) tel.972-4-8572781
--PVA------------------------ooO-(_)-Ooo------------------ 
  an ancestor of mine by the name of Noah was once the 
 commanding admiral of the combined fleets of my planet.

In article <59ot4e$cu...@shiva.usa.net>,
John Debruyn <jde...@access.usa.net> wrote:
>Does any one have a lead to software that can be used to convert
>"traditional" (not grey scale) ascii art into a gif or jpeg so that we can
>put the ascii art up as a graphic image.  That way the addressees of the
>card who think they got mix mash can go to the graphic via the Web URL. 

Graphics WorkShop for DOS will read in TXT files and convert them to GIFs.

At least a page at a time, it's not a pager.

--
N i c k  B e n s e m a  < n i c k b @ p r i m e n e t . c o m >
~ ~ ~ ~  ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~  ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~

98-KUPD Red Card Holder #710563  WedSpc License #71.0563

Vladimir A. Pertsel (vol...@sagantec.co.il) wrote:

> I dare to say, that the appropriate WWW browser for alt.ascii-art
> is lynx. It is free, and I have chosen it for speed. Besides, it 
> skips all the advertisments! It never distorts ASCII pictures.

> General Lynx information:     http://lynx.browser.org/
> Lynx source distribution:     http://www.crl.com/~subir/lynx/sources.html
> Lynx binary distribution:     http://www.crl.com/~subir/lynx/binaries.html
> Lynx 2.6 documentation:       http://www.crl.com/~subir/lynx/2.6/
> <URL:http://lynx.browser.org/>

A DOS version of lynx is available at
ftp://ftp2.cc.ukans.edu/pub/WWW/DosLynx/DLX0_8A.EXE.

I use lynx and I like it a lot (even though many people who create web
sites are picking up the annoying habit of making their sites only
Netscape or Microsoft Internet Explorer compatible).  However, you really
should be able to use any browser that is compatible with the official
HTML standards to view ASCII art on a web page.  The official definitions
for the PRE tag that I've seen for HTML 2 and HTML 3.2 state that whatever
is inside must be rendered in a fixed width font.  If a browser doesn't
render it in a fixed width font, it is not compatible with the HTML
standard.  Even the AOL browser that renders the rest of the page in
proportional fonts, supports a fixed width font for the PRE tag.  

Wish the same could be said for e-mail and newsreaders.

Laura Michaels
http://members.aol.com/laurm3017/index.html

John Debruyn (jde...@access.usa.net) wrote:
> I put the ascii art up on the Web using the HTML <pre> code.  My browser
> which is set to a fixed width font set picked the item up really well,
> but again the other beta testers came up with unintelligible mix mash.
> You can take a look at what I am working with at:

> http://www.usa.net/~jdebruyn/postcard.html

The PRE tag in HTML is defined such that browsers are supposed to use
fixed width fonts.  PRE is used to create tables if your browser doesn't
support such functions.  If a browser is not using fixed width fonts for
text inside a PRE tag, then something is wrong with that browser and it is
not following the HTML standard.  People should complain to the browser
manufacturer about that.

L Michaels
http://members.aol.com/lauram3017/index.html


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From: afn...@afn.org (Laura Michaels)
Newsgroups: alt.ascii-art
Subject: Re: Help save ascii art from destruction by variable fonts
Date: 24 Dec 1996 18:22:35 GMT
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--

From L Michaels (afn...@afn.org), we heard --

> The PRE tag in HTML is defined such that browsers are supposed to use
> fixed width fonts.  PRE is used to create tables if your browser doesn't
> support such functions.  If a browser is not using fixed width fonts for
> text inside a PRE tag, then something is wrong with that browser and it is
> not following the HTML standard.  People should complain to the browser
> manufacturer about that.

If PRE doesn't do it, XMP should. But you should still complain. Loudly.

Dan Strychalski
dsk...@cameonet.cameo.com.tw

> to digitize your ascii
> ----------------------
> You could print out your ascii art
> (watch out for page breaks) in fixed font,
> or any font that resembles your intended art,
> then scan the prints using a scanner.
> Alternatively you could take sreen shots
> and a display of your ascii picture by
> various screen capture routines that comes along
> with a usual image processing software.
> (lviewpro in the pc, has this)

If you're using Windows, and it all fits on one page, you could just hit
PrtScrn, and paste the screen dump into your favorite image editor...
but where's the fun in THAT??? :-)

Cya,
Jason C. Wenger

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dsk...@cameonet.cameo.com.tw wrote:
> From L Michaels (afn...@afn.org), we heard --

> > The PRE tag in HTML is defined such that browsers are supposed to use
> > fixed width fonts.  PRE is used to create tables if your browser doesn't
> > support such functions.  If a browser is not using fixed width fonts for
> > text inside a PRE tag, then something is wrong with that browser and it is
> > not following the HTML standard.  People should complain to the browser
> > manufacturer about that.

> If PRE doesn't do it, XMP should. But you should still complain. Loudly.

> Dan Strychalski
> dsk...@cameonet.cameo.com.tw

	I've read somewhere that it would also be advisable to add <tt> and
</tt> around ASCII art (that is, besides <pre>). It stands for teletype mode,
but I really don't know what that is suposed to do. I use it anyway and never
seen anyone complaining about it! :)

	Have a wonderfull new year

--
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The traditional font for ASCII art is monaco 9-point.
If you enlarge it or delarge <giggle> it, it loses resolution, but pretty 
much keeps the shape (Though depending on your line height it might make 
it taller and thinner). Courier 9 works okay too, but it has lotsa little 
frilly things which (I think) make the work look YuCkY!

And an annoying thing: When you print out monaco, it comes out looking 
like courier!



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