Outlook Express for Windows again

llizard wrote:
> .
>      ?!       the first dot in the top left corner is necessary
>  ^^^^%---     for applications other than OEfW at the beginning
>   "   \       of a post, but the sig shouldn't need any dots because
>               the first two -- indicating the sig should take care
>               of that problem.
> 
> Am I right?

The dot (or any other character for that matter, the dot is the least
obtrusive) in the top left corner is agreed upon, it is needed for many
applications, OEfW included.

However, unless OEfW is able to differentiate between a dot and the double
hyphen (and I doubt that OEfW is able to differentiate and willing to take
ascii sig precautions) then, when the sender sends out the sig below:
--
         ha     llizard aka ejm   cq5...@freenet.toronto.on.ca
 ^^^^%---  ha    http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Studios/9334/
  "   \ ha           ASCII-art, ASCII and gif animations

then OEFW may/will render it like this (purging the single space at the
beginning of a line, and leaving two or more spaces at the beginning of a line intact.)
--
         ha     llizard aka ejm   cq5...@freenet.toronto.on.ca
^^^^%---  ha    http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Studios/9334/
  "   \ ha           ASCII-art, ASCII and gif animations

The above distortion is not serious (I think,) but in my case, if I send out:
--
 .oo
(  -)
 " "
then OEfW may/will distort the pic like below, i.e. quite a bit:
--
.oo
(  -)   Help! Help! OEfW is doing naughty things to me!
" "

The suggested remedy is to place the leftmost character of an ascii pic/sig
two or more spaces away from the left hand side of the page, even after using
a dot or a double hyphen. That will hopefully make them OEfW proof. In case of
your sig, just move it to the right by one more space, then all of it will be
at least two spaces away from the left hand side of the page. In case of
Frogstein, I would need to move him two spaces to the right to make him OEfW
proof. (The other option is to use panels for pics/sigs as I do.)

(I hope people don't read this article with OEfW, because in that case, the
sample pics, designed to illustrate the difference, will look exactly the
same, i.e. with the exact same distortion.)

=========================================================
[]      ,,                                             []
[]     ( ">      Visit the Gallery of the 'steins!     []
[]    ,(> )>    http://www3.sympatico.ca/petecasso/    []
[]   (  ^^     Devilstein, who sired all the 'steins   []
[]                                                     []
=========================================================

In article <356...@sympatico.ca>, Pete Casso
<pet...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
> 
> llizard wrote:
> > .
> >      ?!       the first dot in the top left corner is necessary
> >  ^^^^%---     for applications other than OEfW at the beginning
> >   "   \       of a post, but the sig shouldn't need any dots because
> >               the first two -- indicating the sig should take care
> >               of that problem.
> >
> > Am I right?

I forgot to say to move the drawing in one space. 

>
[snip]
>if I send out:
> --
>  .oo
> (  -)
>  " "
> then OEfW may/will distort the pic like below, i.e. quite a bit:
> --
> .oo
> (  -)   Help! Help! OEfW is doing naughty things to me!
> " "
> 
> The suggested remedy is to place the leftmost character of an ascii pic/sig
> two or more spaces away from the left hand side of the page, even after using
> a dot or a double hyphen. That will hopefully make them OEfW proof. In case of
> your sig, just move it to the right by one more space, then all of it will be
> at least two spaces away from the left hand side of the page. In case of
> Frogstein, I would need to move him two spaces to the right to make him OEfW
> proof. (The other option is to use panels for pics/sigs as I do.)
> 
> (I hope people don't read this article with OEfW, because in that case, the
> sample pics, designed to illustrate the difference, will look exactly the
> same, i.e. with the exact same distortion.)
.
                       |\  |
 ^^^^%---   _  \    /  | \ |
  "   \ Y  /-\  \/\/   |  \|

The point I was *trying* to make was to move your frog one space in like
this: 

--[nothing goes after the two hyphens]
  .oo
 (  -)
  " "

From what I can gather, there should be no distortion in OEfW and it
should make it OEproof. Remember, your source said "that OEfW only
eliminates _single_ blanks at the beginning of a line (which damages
ascii pics.) He never saw OEfW eliminate two or more
blanks at the beginning of a line." So you should only have to move in
ONE space.


(But really, admit it, OEfW and this OEfWproofing is really quite a
bore... I know I'm done with this subject.)


NOTE: If you are e-mailing me and hit the reply button, add an "e"
to "freent"; its absense is to stop the torment of automatic mailers.
--
                   z    ASCII-art, ASCII-animations and animated gifs
         ___     z        http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Studios/9334/
       _/   |   z                         cq5...@freenet.toronto.on.ca
      |_____| ===-^^>                                 llizard aka ejm
        --- ==    \/ >
      [_____]      __>,^
 ejm   |   |      //| |

llizard wrote:
> this:
> 
> --[nothing goes after the two hyphens]
>   .oo
>  (  -)
>   " "
> 
> From what I can gather, there should be no distortion in OEfW and it
> should make it OEproof. Remember, your source said "that OEfW only
> eliminates _single_ blanks at the beginning of a line (which damages
> ascii pics.) He never saw OEfW eliminate two or more
> blanks at the beginning of a line." So you should only have to move in
> ONE space.

Unfortunately, moving in one space will not make ascii pics OEfW proof (please
note the single space to the left of Frogstein's body):
  .oo
 (  -)
  " "
may/will be renderred by OEfW like this:
  .oo
(  -)   Oops! OEfW moved my body to the left!
  " "

> But really, admit it, OEfW and this OEfWproofing is really quite a
> bore... I know I'm done with this subject.)

Well, you don't have to respond if you don't want to. 

But I hope OEfW (Outlook Express for Windows) users can confirm OEfW proofing
by moving in two (or more) spaces. So OEfW users:

 .oo
(  -)   This appears distorted, doesn't it?
 " "

   .oo
  (  -)   This appears correctly, doesn't it?
   " "

Definition of correct is:
.    .oo
.   (  -)
.    " "

=========================================================
[]      ,,                                             []
[]     ( ">      Visit the Gallery of the 'steins!     []
[]    ,(> )>    http://www3.sympatico.ca/petecasso/    []
[]   (  ^^     Devilstein, who sired all the 'steins   []
[]                                                     []
=========================================================

>He claimed that OEfW only eliminates _single_ blanks at the beginning of a
>line (which damages ascii pics.) He never saw OEfW eliminate two or more
>blanks at the beginning of a line.

Correct.

--

-aardvarko


Pete Casso wrote in message <355...@sympatico.ca>...

I just had a chat with a long time user of Outlook Express for Windows (OEfW)
He claimed that OEfW only eliminates _single_ blanks at the beginning of a
line (which damages ascii pics.) He never saw OEfW eliminate two or more
blanks at the beginning of a line. 

That means that there could be a simpler way for OEfW proofing than putting
dots at the beginning of each line.

.   .oo    This pic is certainly OEfW proof, but (some of)
.  (  -)   the dots are perhaps unnecessary
.   " "

The following pic should be OEfW proof too. Crucial is, that the leftmost
character in the pic (Frogstein's bum) is two blanks (and at least two 
blanks) away from the beginning of the line.

.  .oo    The first dot in the top left corner is necessary
  (  -)   for applications other than OEfW as well, but
   " "    subsequent lines do not need any dots.

Any comments?

=========================================================
[]      ,,                                             []
[]     ( ">      Visit the Gallery of the 'steins!     []
[]    ,(> )>    http://www3.sympatico.ca/petecasso/    []
[]   (  ^^     Devilstein, who sired all the 'steins   []
[]                                                     []
=========================================================

In article <355...@sympatico.ca>, Pete Casso
<pet...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
> 
> I just had a chat with a long time user of Outlook Express for Windows (OEfW)
> He claimed that OEfW only eliminates _single_ blanks at the beginning of a
> line (which damages ascii pics.) He never saw OEfW eliminate two or more
> blanks at the beginning of a line.
> 
> That means that there could be a simpler way for OEfW proofing than putting
> dots at the beginning of each line.
> 
> .   .oo    This pic is certainly OEfW proof, but (some of)
> .  (  -)   the dots are perhaps unnecessary
> .   " "
> 
> The following pic should be OEfW proof too. Crucial is, that the leftmost
> character in the pic (Frogstein's bum) is two blanks (and at least two
> blanks) away from the beginning of the line.
> 
> .  .oo    The first dot in the top left corner is necessary
>   (  -)   for applications other than OEfW as well, but
>    " "    subsequent lines do not need any dots.
> 
> Any comments?
.
     ?!       the first dot in the top left corner is necessary
 ^^^^%---     for applications other than OEfW at the beginning 
  "   \       of a post, but the sig shouldn't need any dots because
              the first two -- indicating the sig should take care
              of that problem.

Am I right?


NOTE: If you are e-mailing me and hit the reply button, add an "e"
to "freent"; its absense is to stop the torment of automatic mailers.
--
         ha     llizard aka ejm   cq5...@freenet.toronto.on.ca
 ^^^^%---  ha    http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Studios/9334/
  "   \ ha           ASCII-art, ASCII and gif animations

Tsssssk, Windoze...

-- 
           _             _
------------\    ,---.  /------------
 ---------.  `-./  "\.-'  .---------
   --------\   .         /--------
      ------`-.|      .-'------
           ---/ `/"\  \---
              `//_-_\\'
   .----------(.'---',)----------.
  | mailto:ojo...@mindless.com  |
  |   http://ojoshiro.neroc.nl    |
  |          --oO(_)Oo--          |
  |       Ojoshiro fuit hic       |
   "-----------------------------"

llizard wrote:
> Pete Casso wrote:
> > llizard wrote:
[ 8< *yawn!* 8< ]
> The point I was *trying* to make was to move your frog one space in like
> this:
> 

That would have to be two spaces, not one. If I understood it correctly
the last time this was up OE only distorts when there is _exactly one_
space at the beginning of the line. If there are zero or two or more
spaces at the beginning of the line then there will be no distortion.

> --[nothing goes after the two hyphens]
>   .oo
>  (  -)
>   " "
> 

Actually, that should be "one space character goes after the two
hyphens" (apparently there are programs that pick out one line
containing only "hypen, hyphen, _space_" (i.e. "-- ", not "--") and use
a different style, e.g. different colour or different font, on the rest
of the post. I know this because somebody told me about it who had his
news program set up to show sigs in blue Courier and the rest of the
posts in black Times...).

> (But really, admit it, OEfW and this OEfWproofing is really quite a
> bore... I know I'm done with this subject.)
> 

(me too, and my frogs stay the way they are!)

-- 
              _                                         _
  __   ___.--'_`.  __   __                _           .'_`--.___   __
 ( _`.'. -   'o` ) \ \ / /__ _ _ ___ _ _ (_)__ __ _  ( 'o`   - .`.'_ )
 _\.'_'      _.-'   \ V / -_) '_/ _ \ ' \| / _/ _` |  `-._      `_`./_
( \`. )    //\`      \_/\___|_| \___/_||_|_\__\__,_|    '/\\    ( .'/ )
 \_`-'`---'\\__,                                       ,__//`---'`-'_/
  \`        `-\    uggc://jjj.yhqq.yhgu.fr/hfref/ix/    /-'        '/
   ` _____________________ r93...@fz.yhgu.fr ____________________ '
        LIKE MY SIG? GO HERE: http://www.surfplaza.com/figlet/

.----- On Mon, 18 May 1998 07:53:48 -0400, llizard posted:
|     ?!       the first dot in the top left corner is necessary
| ^^^^%---     for applications other than OEfW at the beginning 
|  "   \       of a post, but the sig shouldn't need any dots because
|              the first two -- indicating the sig should take care
|              of that problem.
|
|Am I right?
'------------------------

yes. :)


|\/| _..__|_o._   /\_|_| o._  _   mart.atkins@--
|  |(_||  |_|| | /--\|_|<|| |_>            --bigfoot.com

.----- On Mon, 18 May 1998 22:59:40 GMT, Pete Casso posted:
|Unfortunately, moving in one space will not make ascii pics OEfW proof (please
|note the single space to the left of Frogstein's body):
|  .oo
| (  -)
|  " "
|may/will be renderred by OEfW like this:
|  .oo
|(  -)   Oops! OEfW moved my body to the left!
|  " "
|
'------------------------

|||||                   _
| o o |           |\/| |_>
|  >  |      .--- |  | | \    _  _   _   _   _
|  -  | ----'                |  |_| |_' |_' | | |
\___/                        |_ | | ._| ._| |_| .
__| |__
(Diliberate Margin Mushing)

I get the feeling that llizard knew this and just made a slight mistake...

You are too fussy!

      |||||
     | o o |
     |  >  |     .-- Indent a pic a couple hundred miles and it`s fine!
     | \_/ |  --'
      \___/
     __| |__

Seeya

|\/| _..__|_o._   /\_|_| o._  _   mart.atkins@--
|  |(_||  |_|| | /--\|_|<|| |_>            --bigfoot.com

>       |||||
>      | o o |
>      |  >  |     .-- Indent a pic a couple hundred miles and it`s fine!
>      | \_/ |  --'
>       \___/
>      __| |__

Two spaces should do it, see my article on "Usable pagewidth for ascii pics"

=========================================================
[]      ,,                                             []
[]     ( ">      Visit the Gallery of the 'steins!     []
[]    ,(> )>    http://www3.sympatico.ca/petecasso/    []
[]   (  ^^     Devilstein, who sired all the 'steins   []
[]                                                     []
=========================================================

In article <356...@news.vossnet.net>, zne...@ovtsbbg.pbz
(Martin Atkins) wrote:
> 
> .----- On Mon, 18 May 1998 07:53:48 -0400, llizard posted:
> |     ?!       the first dot in the top left corner is necessary
> | ^^^^%---     for applications other than OEfW at the beginning
> |  "   \       of a post, but the sig shouldn't need any dots because
> |              the first two -- indicating the sig should take care
> |              of that problem.
> |
> |Am I right?
> '------------------------
> 
> yes. :)
> 
> |\/| _..__|_o._   /\_|_| o._  _   mart.atkins@--
> |  |(_||  |_|| | /--\|_|<|| |_>            --bigfoot.com
.
          ___ 
        _/   |===%^,
       |_____|  __\/>
         ---  ==     >
       [_____]     __>,^
  ejm98 |   |     //| |


Thanks for setting me straight Martin. (I paid not very much attention
when you were talking about this subject before so I did in fact think
that one indentation was enough.)

In deference to you being plagued with that awful OEfW, I will make sure
that my drawings are moved over at least two spaces. And for today - and
who knows? maybe other days too - I will do the same with my sig....

(and now I'm *really* stopping with this dreary subject)


NOTE: If you are e-mailing me and hit the reply button, add an "e"
to "freent"; its absense is to stop the torment of automatic mailers.
--
        ha     llizard aka ejm   cq5...@freenet.toronto.on.ca
  ^^^^%---  ha    http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Studios/9334/
   "   \ ha           ASCII-art, ASCII and gif animations