Fixed size art, artist needed, Game system, Read please

I'm desiging a new RPG multiplayer system that allows telnet connections.
The networking already all works, player handling, etc. And now i'm desiging
the game.

Unlike your normal telnet MUDS, this is going to be quite different.
Although still operating in line-by-line mode (char-by-char mode is toooo slow)
The screen will be 'frozen' in pace except for an input field and a dynamically
changing field above it, where 'game information', messages and artwork appears
Maps, room descriptions, etc.  I really would like to invest a large portion
of the 'feel' of the game to the artwork. (this is not like a mud. although it
is multiplayer, and there will be conversation, its not gonna be hundreds of
global chat messages flowing around and chatter globally scrolling all the
time, instead of thosands of rooms, 50% of them not being unique and looking
all the same except different room names, we will have a quality world with
good descriptions and 'artwork' for each area/room. this system focuses more
on the GAME rather than on the chatting that SOME muds seem to focus on)

(there is a scren layout picture at the bottom of the message)

I got to desiging the screen and realizied I knew nothing of ASCII art.
Basically, I'm stuck on the SIZE and the DIMENSIONS of the 'artwork' view
field space. How small is too small? should there be more columns than lines?
Of course if you happen to trench into a dungeon, you'll see a view such as:

\           /
 \         /~
~ \       /~
 ~~|-----|  ~           Again, I'm no ascii artist, but you get the idea
   |`  ``| ~
~ ~|` ` `|~ ~
 ~ |-----|~
~ / .. .  \~~
 /.  . . . \~
/  .  . . . \

Now most people have bigger screens than 80x25, although people with 80x25
screens will be able to work with the adventure system just fine (basically
larger screen people will be able to tell the mud how big the screen is, etc.
and portions of the screen can become larger.

However, the ART picture ascii art 'section/view' will remain the same size.
Now since I believe most people will have bigger than 80x25 in terms of x and y
for columns and line size, I'm not afraid to make the art section as big
as it NEEDS to be in order to gain the most flexibility for the art and
room pictures, etc.

here is a quick example of what I have in mind:

/------------------------------------------------------------------------------\
|                              |This is where the server sends                 |
|                              |You text in response to the                    |
|                              |Commands and words that you                    |
|                              |Type and send to                               |
|        30x12                 |the server. This space                         |
|        Art Space             |                                               |
|                              |is very                                        |
|  Bigger?                     |                                               |
|                              |coooooooooooool                                |
|  Different dimensions?       |                                               |
|      (x by Y)                |Sembiance says, "Hi there! hehe                |
|------------------------------|                                               |
|Maybe Stats                   |                                               |
|Sembiance        etc.         |blah blah blah, this can all change            |
|    HP 200/200                |                                               |
| Int 9                        |                                               |
| Str 9        Platinum 20     |                                               |
|                 Gold 100     |                                               |
|  etc.        Silver 2000     |                                               |
|------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
|                                                                              |
|You get to type here hehe                                                     |
|This input field stays here                                                   |
\------------------------------------------------------------------------------/


Basically I need to raise some debate and discussion from everyone, artists,
game players, etc. on how big I need the art space. Of course, anyone who
wants to help out with actual art, and the desiging and creation of the world
I'd be glad to have help.

I'd like to keep dicussion in the newsgroup, after all, thats what a newsgroup
is for ;)  (and so that deja news searchers can find this thread years in the
future in its entirity)
If you need to email me its:   ber...@ncinter.net

I look forward to hearing your input.

Robert Schultz (ber...@ncinter.net) wrote:
: I'm desiging a new RPG multiplayer system that allows telnet connections.
: The networking already all works, player handling, etc. And now i'm desiging
: the game.

Ok, I'll bite..

: Unlike your normal telnet MUDS, this is going to be quite different.
 [snip details]

From what you say, your system isn't that different from MUDs - it might
not be an average MUD, but it certainly wouldn't seem unusual at least by
LPMUD standards. There certainly are far weirder things done in LPC[1].

Of course, it doesn't have to be unique, it just has to be good. If your
system, and the world it presents, are well designed and implemented, the
idea has the potential to become a great game. It also has the potential
to become a flop.

: all the same except different room names, we will have a quality world with
: good descriptions and 'artwork' for each area/room. this system focuses more
: on the GAME rather than on the chatting that SOME muds seem to focus on)

Have you already focused on the world, then? Your post gives the
impression that you've started from the technical side of things - a good
approach in the sense that a good technical foundation is essential for
playability, but until your game world is fully designed and implemented
it's impossible to say whether your project is going to be the greatest
multiplayer adventure ever or just another half-baked mud with a twist.

: However, the ART picture ascii art 'section/view' will remain the same size.
: Now since I believe most people will have bigger than 80x25 in terms of x and y
: for columns and line size, I'm not afraid to make the art section as big
: as it NEEDS to be in order to gain the most flexibility for the art and
: room pictures, etc.

And to answer your question; Assume 80x24, and allow for even smaller
screen sizes if possible. It's as much of a standard as there is, after
all, and there'll be many people who, even if they can, are reluctant to
spend too much screen real estate on your telnet window.

I personally wouldn't make the ascii art area more that 30 characters
wide, maybe even smaller if other parts of the display need space[2].
Remember that you're going to need lots of high quality ascii scenes,
preferably detailed and filling the whole area, and the time it takes
to create them does correlate to some extent with their size.

I think pretty small images would suffice, in fact, since their main
use - in addition to creating an atmosphere for the place - would be to
provide visual reference points. Small, almost iconic pictures, without
too much detail but with every character carefully chosen, are quick to
recognize, and can, through the players' imagination, create a much
more vivid atmosphere that larger, detailed but often monotonic[3] pics
that look more like blueprints than sketches.

: game players, etc. on how big I need the art space. Of course, anyone who
: wants to help out with actual art, and the desiging and creation of the world
: I'd be glad to have help.

Assuming that the system really does live up to your promises, I'd love
to participate. Alas, I won't be having much time for such things at
least for a year of so. :-( So I'll just give some advice while I can,
and my advice is to concentrate on the gameplay and the world first, and
- while making plans in your mind is most useful - not to hardline the
outward appearance before the final implementation phase.


[1] Such as fully graphical MUDs with custom client software, or - for
example - FTP servers. Of course, while it's quite true that you can
implement pretty much anything in LPC, a lot of LPMUDders are quick to
mention that while conveniently forgetting that most people still use
it to implement simple, basic hack'n'slash MUDs.

[2] Although you'll notice that ascii pictures tend to have a natural
size that is different for each picture, so any fixed size is going to
cause difficulties at some point. This'll be even more true if you're
going to be - as is likely - using pictures from several artists. This
is one more reason to keep the image size small, incidentally, since
smaller images, while often harder to make look right, are faster to
mass-produce.

[3] Because you simply cannot consider each character out of 360*n
independently, and because such over-abstraction is a common problem[4]
in ascii art. (I always try to draw my ascii art in an impressionist
way. Combined with the natural rigidity of the medium, it seems to
produce just about okay pictures.)

[4] For some definitions of "problem". Sometimes it can be exactly what
you want, of course.

-- 
Ilmari Karonen (ilt...@sci.fi) | Was at a bookstore today, [snip] and noticed
  http://www.sci.fi/~iltzu/   | "Microsoft Internet Explorer 4 for Dummies"
Will fix broken HTML for food | . . . and thought "Yes".  -- Jeff Vinocur

.----- On 11 Oct 1998 17:06:14 GMT, Ilmari Karonen posted:
|Robert Schultz (ber...@ncinter.net) wrote:
|: I'm desiging a new RPG multiplayer system that allows telnet connections.
|: The networking already all works, player handling, etc. And now i'm desiging
|: the game.
|
|Ok, I'll bite..
|
|: Unlike your normal telnet MUDS, this is going to be quite different.
| [snip details]
|
|From what you say, your system isn't that different from MUDs - it might
|not be an average MUD, but it certainly wouldn't seem unusual at least by
|LPMUD standards. There certainly are far weirder things done in LPC[1].
|
|Of course, it doesn't have to be unique, it just has to be good. If your
|system, and the world it presents, are well designed and implemented, the
|idea has the potential to become a great game. It also has the potential
|to become a flop.
'---------------------------
<SNIP the rest>

I just have one comment. Design the ascii art around the world --- don`t
deliberately layout the world to fit your favourite ascii arts.

basically, design the layout of the world before you even go near pitting in
any pics.

I hope the project goes well...

-Martin
|\/| _..__|_o._   /\_|_| o._  _   mart.atkins@--
|  |(_||  |_|| | /--\|_|<|| |_>            --bigfoot.com