Re: About rendering ascii code in a .txt medium

    |||||
   |||( o|
   ||    >      .--- I`m now going to stick my nose in with
   |   '-|  ---'    my views and my own direction on this arguement.
    \___/


.----- On Tue, 15 Sep 1998 23:09:45 GMT, Pete Casso posted:
|Matthew Thomas wrote:
|> > > First: typographical parameters are NOT `absolutely vital for the
|> > > correct rendition of any ascii pic'.
|> >
|> > Wrong #1. Typographical parameters such as proportional or
|> > non-proportional font ARE absolutely vital for the correct rendition
|> > of any ascii pic.
|> 
|> All you have done here is simply say `you are wrong', without giving any
|> reasons.
|
|I have given you all the reasons why you are wrong, but you fail to
|acknowledge those reasons. 
|
|For example, in the above exchange, the reason given for making or breaking
|ascii pics are typographical parameters (proportional/non-proportional fonts)
|which is a clear rebuttal of your statement that typographical parameters are
|not needed for rendering ascii pics.
c
Pete has indirectly given reasons for his comments... he just didn`t say
'You are wrong BECAUSE blah blah blah....'

.-------------------------
|> Here are mine (again): ASCII art assumes a fixed-width font,
|
|This assumption is exactly the fatal flaw at the root of your arguments: the
|ascii standard has no provision whatsoever for fixed-width or proportional
|font. 
|
|Fixed width and proportional are in the realm of typography, outside of the
|ascii standard. For example, Arial and proportional are both ascii, just with
|different typography.
'-------------------------
Pete is right. ASCII is simply a code that defines a standard number for
each displayable character on a screen. ASCII Art in this group assumes a
fixed-width font and I accept that *most* ascii art is in a
monospaced/fixed-width/non-proportional font however any picture formed from
ascii characters can be called 'ascii art' regardless of which font it`s
in... It just might not be viewable on any other system.

.-------------------------
|> Yes, HTML (<PRE></PRE> in particular) can be used to tell HTML-readers
|> not to mess with ASCII art. 
|
|Ah, and this is perhaps a fist understanding that ascii is supported in a
|different medium than a .txt medium. In this case ascii is supported in a
|.html medium! Moreover ...
|
|... the html medium has more potential than the .txt medium
|... there are many other media with even more potential which support ascii
|
|... and surprise, surprise, in spite of all the different media,
|    that's all ascii art!
'-------------------------
As long as it`s a picture formed from ascii characters, it`s ascii art... in
my opinion. Regardless of what format it is represented in.

.-------------------------
|> Note that the FONT tag, used to specify
|> typeface, color, and size, is `deprecated' in HTML 4.0. To explain in a
|> buzzword-free fashion, that means that the tag is on its way to becoming
|> obsolete in a few years.
|
|Don't worry about the details, better typographical tags will become
|available, the web design community will demand those!
'-------------------------
Stylesheets can do this nicely, and although it is difficult to specify a
font for all systems, you can choose those that are best on all systems and
on non-stylesheet browsers they`ll just use their own monospaced fonts.

PRE {
 font-family: "Lucida Console", FixedSys, "Courier New",
              Monaco, Courier, Terminal, monospaced;
 font-height: 110%;
 line-height: 100%;
 font-style: normal;
 font-weight: medium;
 font-variant: normal;
 text-decoration: none;
}

Nice snippet there... my nice long font list and other settings from my
ascii site at http://voices.vossnet.co.uk/a/atkins/ascii.htm.

.------------------------
|> Name one. Go on, I dare you to. Name a single font that is available on
|> all platforms. Perhaps then you'll get my point.
|
|Well, don't ask me for my word, ask a multi-platform professional for a better
|word. On top of those fonts, these professionals are also using font
|substitution maps for the other fonts. These maps are part and parcel of the
|files that they send to service bureaus and the like. I think, in the long
|run, these maps are a very good solution for ascii pics as well. (WHOOOOOAH,
|that's even further out than typographical tags!)
.------------------------
Well, there are a lot of systems that only have one font available. Courier,
however, is available on many systems and it looks very similar. (I`m not
saying it`s on every system)

Anyway, see above about using multiple fonts.

.------------------------
|> Yes, Pete, I am fighting for the future. In this case, I am unashamedly
|> a member of the anti-HTML-in-e-mail-or-Usenet brigade, because I
|> recognize the waste of time and bandwidth that HTML represents in these
|> media.
|
|I don't think you are fighting for the future at all, on the contrary, you are
|fighting to maintain the status quo. For example, you like ascii to live
|within the constraints of a .txt medium. 
|
|Whereas I am pushing the envelope, for example, I like to use other media that
|support ascii.
|
|(FWIW, I have already left html behind me and moved on to better media)
'------------------------
I use HTML in Email when I know the recipient will recieve and display it
correctly, but I know there`s no point using it for newsgroups as there will
always be someone, somewhere who doesn`t have an HTML newsreader (like
me!)... and it`s a horrible waste of space on news servers which remove all
articles when the disk fills.

.------------------------
|> If they are clearly observable, why are you wasting your (and our) time
|> stating them?
|
|Well, clearly observable with wide open eyes, that is. I am beginning to open
|some eyes, and that's good use of bandwidth!
'------------------------
Er, yes! :o)

.------------------------
|> > So the numbers are growing, and if more than half the people on the
|> > Internet use proportional fonts, then html tags will not only work, it
|> > becomes an absolute necessity for ascii pics to be correctly displayed
|> > to the majority of Internet users.
|> You seem to assume that all e-mail/Usenet software which uses
|> proportional fonts also recognizes HTML. Not so.
|
|I did not say that either.
|
|What I said is that html tags will become a necessity in an increasingly
|proportional world (to correctly display ascii pics.)
|
|But indeed (and perhaps to your dismay) more and more email and newsgroup
|software will progress and will be html aware.
'------------------------
Sad, but true.

HTML and proportional fonts will gradually creep into most newsreaders -
especially since Outlook Express now comes with Win98 (I think ... ?) which
is what a lot of users will be seeing when they buy their 'first pc'.

.------------------------
|> ... Well, Pete, on the subject of whether or not `art form' and `medium'
|> mean much the same thing, either Webster's dictionary is right, or you
|> are. I'm siding with Webster on this one.
|
|Well, you are just quoting generic definitions from a dictionary. You did not
|even make an attempt to apply those generic definitions to ascii specifically.
|
|Whereas I did apply the words artform and medium to ascii specifically, and
|using my pathologically enlarge ego ;-)) I can even point to my website where
|I have shown how the ascii artform can be practised in a variety of media!
|
'-------------------------
Again, I`m not getting involved in this particular debate.


Bye,
Martin


<Insert disclaimer from some previous message! :o)>
|\/| _..__|_o._   /\_|_| o._  _   mart.atkins@--
|  |(_||  |_|| | /--\|_|<|| |_>            --bigfoot.com

Related ASCII art in the Gallery

Explore these categories from our collection of 11,000+ artworks:

 ,~~--~~-.
+      | |\
|| |~ |`,/-\
*\_) \_) `-'

 __
 \  \     _ _
  \**\ ___\/ \
X*#####*+^^\_\
  o/\  \
     \__\

.------------.
|\\//\\//\\//|
|//\\//\\//\\|
|\\//\\//\\//|
|//\\//\\//\\|
'------------'

   _______
 /` _____ `\;,
/__(^===^)__\';,
  /  :::  \   ,;
 |   :::   | ,;'
 '._______.'`jgs

 _  _
(o)(o)--.
 \../ (  )hjw
 m\/m--m'`--.

  _  _
/` \/ `\_  _
\     /` \/ `\
 '.  .\      /
   \/  '.  .'
         \/jgs

Make your own ASCII art

Turn images, text or 3D into ASCII, or draw your own – right in your browser.