Re: ASCII Art Fart for Thu, 2004 Nov 25

News server fucked up.

ABCGi <abc...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>ABCGi wrote:
>> Bateau wrote:
>> 
>>> ABCGi <abc...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Simon Williams wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Bateau <Gam...@work.stomping.aza> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> You, the UN, and all the other PC pusstards are sexist by omission:
>>>>>> violence against men is just as bad as violence against women.
>>>>
>>>> Yeah not the point dude, if you knew the stats you'd know we are 
>>>> addressing, by far, the most pressing problem first. A simple case of 
>>>> priority in problem solving, something every programmer knows. There 
>>>> is nothing PC about it.
>>>
>>> Priority in problem solving? Violence is ONE problem not two.
>>> You are the one who needs to examine the stats. If you want to split it
>>> into sexes then you are focussing on the lesser problem. Go to any E.R.
>>> or police station and ask them who is more often seriously injured or
>>> killed by violent acts. The answer is overwhelmingly "men." To be as
>>> wrong as you are about this you must be ignorant, stupid, or sexist.
>> 
>> The above is anecdotal not statistical, do you have any studies or 
>> statistics?

Wow. I thought it was so obvious that even my reference to the anecdotal
evidence of experts was overkill. I thought merely pointing out
something so obvious would force you to abandon your sexist position but
you made the unexpected move of denying something that is beyond
question to every other person on Earth. It takes me back to my days of
debating on religious newsgroups.

But anyway..
In 1998 the National Institute of Justice and Centers for Disease
Control and Prevention published their findings into violence against
women. Some excerpts:

"52 percent of surveyed women and 66 percent of surveyed men said they
were physically assaulted as a child by an adult caretaker and/or as an
adult by any type of perpetrator."

"1.9 percent of surveyed women and 3.4 percent of surveyed men
said they were physically assaulted in the previous 12 months. These
estimates equate to approximately 1.9 million women and 3.2 million
men who are physically assaulted annually in the United States"

"approximately 5.9 million physical assaults perpetrated against women
and 7.9 million physical assaults perpetrated against men in the 12
months preceding the survey"

And from a 1995 Bureau of Justice Statistics report:

"A greater percentage of victimizations against males than females were
committed by multiple offenders. Multiple offenders committed 27% of the
violent victimizations against men and 16% of those against women."

"Homicides in 1992
Female victims   Male victims
5,001            17,835"

What these studies tell us is that:
Most victims of violence are male.
Most people injured by violence are male.
Most assaults are perpetrated against men.
Most victims of violence by multiple people are men.
Most victims of homicide are men.

You said:

>Yeah not the point dude, if you knew the stats you'd know we are 
>addressing, by far, the most pressing problem first. A simple case of 
>priority in problem solving, something every programmer knows. There is 
>nothing PC about it.

Wow.
Now I think the most interesting thing about this discussion is how you
could be so completely wrong. What the hell were you thinking?

>> And again, the point was not that violence against men is 
>> better/worse than violence against women.

I never said violence against men was worse. I said it was more
prevalent and a bigger problem.

>Another issue for priority is that sexual assault in the courts has the 
>lowest conviction rate by far of any crime, clearly this makes it first 
>on the list of things to correct.

You are looking at the ratio of accusations to convictions, not the
ratio of crimes to convictions. Sexual assault also has the highest
false accusation rate of any crime by far. Some experts have put the
figure at 40%.

>Also looking statistically at X and Y's - if;
>
>X -> X = 50v
>X -> Y = 49.8v
>Y -> X = 0.2v
>
>Then I'd say the priority is to protect Y.

Number of men assaulted per year: 3.2 million.
Number of women assaulted per year: 1.9 million.
So how does someone with a knowledge of statistics get it so wrong?

>>>>> Violence against _anyone_ is fundamentally a bad thing... wonder why we
>>>>> get more excited when it's based on sex, race or religion?
>>>>>   /\
>>>>>  /oo\     _|_
>>>>> _\^^/____  |
>>>>> /     ,__ |PB
>>>>> |     |  \| |
>>>>> ||.  ,|
>>>>> | ====
>>>>> `|'  `|
>>>>> |    |
>>>>> |    |
>>>>> |    |
>>>>> ^^^^^^
>>>>
>>>> One idea raised by the UN day for stopping violence against women is 
>>>> that the majority of men, who don't think it is ok, speak up more so 
>>>> that that minority doesn't get the mistaken idea that it is perhaps 
>>>> socially acceptable.
>>>>
>>>> I have now officially done my part of that.
>>>
>>> You have attempted to draw attention away from the more pressing
>>> problem. You have also perpetuated the myth that there is no problem of
>>> violence against men by pretending that the comparably tiny amount of
>>> violence against women is the most violence anyone is suffering.
>
>I asked a friend at university to look up figures on this, the study is 
>a bit dated and doesn't include war I don't think but victims of 
>violence is actually about half - half, certainly nothing like 
>"comparably tiny" for women, obviously this is a bit of a misconception 
>or myth (not the other way around).

That will teach you to do your own research then because your friend is
as stupid as you.
Older national surveys showed that the number of male and female victims
of violence PERPETRATED BY INTIMATE PARTNERS was rougly equal. Even
among women that is only 25% of the total number of victims. It would be
no indicator of the number of male and female victims of violence even
if it hadn't been refuted by two more recent and thorough surveys. I
thought you knew something about statistics?
And if they were equal why would you say that violence against women was
"by far, the most pressing problem"?

>Of course if you talking just the sexual assault category then the 
>victims are almost all women and the perpetrator is a man (99.9% of the 
>time).

Your statistical errors are just amusing now. The 1998 survey found that
approximately 76% of the people who are forcibly raped each year are
women. Other studies which give higher numbers have included things like
"verbal threats of a sexual nature" in their results.
But you are just trying to narrow the debate down to sexual assault in
order to focus on female victims of violence. That is probably a
consequence of "politically correct" feminist social conditioning.
Sexual assault is just a fraction of the violence suffered by men and
women each year. The sex of the perpetrator is irrelevant to this
discussion of whether most victims of violence are ignored because they
are not female. It is only useful in a pointless "women vs men" argument
which this probably is in a mind like yours that is twisted by feminist
propoganda.

>> I have never insinuated anything of the sort IIRC. For instance, war, 
>> has a great number of men suffering violence.

You wrote:
>Bateau <Gam...@work.stomping.aza> wrote:
>
>>You, the UN, and all the other PC pusstards are sexist by omission:
>>violence against men is just as bad as violence against women.
>
>Yeah not the point dude, if you knew the stats you'd know we are 
>addressing, by far, the most pressing problem first. A simple case of 
>priority in problem solving, something every programmer knows.

Tell me how you can claim that violence against 37% of victims is a
bigger problem than the same crime against the remaining 63% without
making people believe that the first group is the larger one?

>>>>        ^   ^
>>>>        /---\
>>>>       / * * \
>>>>       \  ^  /
>>>>         v=v
>>>>        {+++}
>>>>         ( )          ObA
>> 
>> 
>> Ok lets say you are correct, shall we now move on and solve violence 
>> against women *and* violence against men (less war would help)? To 
>> labour on the above point is specious.

I am correct. If this debate has shown anything it is that you can not
trust your own judgement. So take my word for it when I say you will do
nothing to solve violence against men. You are too feminist for that.

BTW in these government studies you can find a clue to why there is an
irrational focus on violence against females. There is evidence of a
vicious circle. The aim of a particular study is to find out about
violence against women. So they disregard the evidence of violence
against males when making their recommendations, so their
recommendations are violence prevention policies focussed on female
demographics. Then, because the new policies are focussed on women,
subsequent studies are made with the aim to find out about violence
against women etc.
It all started in the 1970s when feminists decided that they were the
most important people in the world and everyone should only pay
attention to them. If someone had done a study on violence against males
they would have gone nuts.

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