Re: Jave 1.1a , remarks and suggestions

Christian 'CeeJay' Jensen wrote:
> 
> It's good .. it's VERY good .. best Ascii - editor there is.

:-)

> But it's not perfect.

lol. It never will be perfect. But people like you help me making it
better and better...
Thanks again for sharing your ideas. I will comment on some of them, but
before I want to state that I will not have that much time for working
on the project than I had during the last few months. However, there are
still lots of things to do and I think I will do a lot of them - but I
will not add that much features any more.

> * [Watermark]
> - Needs an option to revert to original shape ( like shape factor in the image
> converter )

Maybe by holding down shift-key like with shapes? Will add this one to
my list.

> - On watermark option there should be a checkbot or button to show/hide the
> watermark - I know it's in the menu too , it just seems intuitive if it where in
> the options too

I think I will not add this option, for you also have the button in the
bottom bar and you can use keyboard shortcut Ctrl-P.

> - Watermarks (with on/off) in the imageconverter.

Hm... No bad idea. But too much work for too few gain.

> - Option in imageconverter to apply a watermark to the drawing area with the
> same position shape and size as the converted output - Thats what I usually use
> a watermark for .. for detailwork on converted images.

This one is a better idea. I will add it to my list (i.e. it has a fair
chance to be a feature in the future).

> * [Text tool]
> - MOST WANTED FEATURE (my most wanted , I can't speak for everybody else) , The
> ability to select text just like in a texteditor [...]
> The two tools ( text and selction ) could even be combined into one tool.

You are right, I have often thought about this one. But again it is not
that easy. I have to somehow combine those two tools. Each of them is
quite complex and it will take me some time to figure out how to actualy
implement it.

> Until I can , then Textpad is still my prefered editor for ascii-art

Is this a blackmail attempt? ;-)

> - Jave/Normal is what most people know as Insert/Overwrite (where Jave is
> Overwrite).
> I suggest renaming the two modes to Overwrite/Insert and assign the Insert key
> as a toggle button between the two. Also show the status in the bottom status
> bar status.

You are right, that's the way it is on any other system and I will do
that.

> Insert could also toggle mix in all the other modes .. the problem would then be
> , that it would be odd that it toggled something else in the text tool

I will not do that (do you need to toggle mix that often?).

> * [image convertor]
> The experimental B/W convertos can ddo fine jobs on very simple images ..
> typically black and white ones with little detail.
> Specificly I like the output of the Thick and Thin & Thick modes.
> An idea .. could the convertor detect lines or areas with high contrast and have
> the b/w mode of choice draw just the edges (because thick / thin makes very good
> edges) and use another algorithm for the rest of the image .. My preferred shade
> algorithm is the one i suggested myself , the 1 pixel 8Oo:. (other combinations
> like this are good too f.x 8o:. or #8O:. )

I am not going to work on the image converter the next few weeks. I have
done so much work about that and have done so much testig - I do not
think there is an easy way to get better results. I have also tried to
combine some kind of edge detection with shading (as you suggested) but
the result does not really look good in my opinion...
There are a lot of other people working on algorithms. Before I continue
working on it I would like to see in what way the results can be
improved. This is best done by a comparision between hand converted
images and automatically generated ones. Unfortunately the image2ascii
competition is not going very well...

> - The standard window is to narrow to completely display everything
> The shape factor [ 1.0 ] box is partially hidden and so is some of the
> conversion dropdown menu

You are right. I think I have to do something about the arrangement of
the options. Any ideas are welcome. Just making the window wider is no
good fix for that.

> - Colored output ? .. for export to html

No way. I also like colors, but it would make it all by far more
difficult than it is now. Maybe there is another good tool for
colorizing Ascii art - but I will not add color to Jave (isn't that
something I have already said about many features??).

> * [ Jave movie editor ]
> - (all the advanced commands i mentioned earlier for the player)

The player is open source. Feel free to add any option :-)
 
> - How about an option to loop the file ?

good idea.

> - Option to export to complete webpage or just HTML (from the movie editor)
>   So it makes all the <APPLET> tags and etc ..
>   Possibly also save a copy of the applet along side with the html

I have already thought about that, so it's on my list.

> - The top images flickers

I should think about doublebuffering there...
Is it enough to see 3 images as thumbnail or would you rather like to
see 5 of them?

> - Ability to watermark certain frames , so smooth natural animations are easier
> to create.

You can do that by keeping the last frame in the editor and switching
betweed documents by using Ctrl-Tab.

> - Move movie display to main javewindow and keep frame index and buttons in a
> tool window, so you can view and edit in the same window .. it seems more
> intuitive to do it this way.

That's right - but it is by far harder to implement it that way. But I
keep thinking about this and play around and we will se what comes out
in future...

> And it makes it a lot quicker to edit a movie

You are so right...

> * [3D renderer]
> 
> - More shading options f.x ( #8o:.  )

Right, did not yet have the time to add the editable choice with the
shades. BTW: I don't like # in combination with 8o:. for it does not
seem to look good with some fonts:

in my mail client I can see some       OoOoooo:o
ugly spots here '#'                 OO8O8OOOOoOoo:o
             ``---...__     \     OOO8O8O8OOOOoo:o::.
                       ```---`.  O8O88#8#88O8OOoOoo::.
                           .'   oOO88#8#8#88OOoOoo::.:.
                               oOO8O88#8#88O8OOoOoo::.:.
                               ooOOOO8O8O8OOOOoo:o::.:..
                               oOoOOOO8O8OOOOoOoo:o::...
                                :ooooOoOoOoooo:o::.:...
                                 :ooooooooooo:o::.:...
                                  :::o:o:o::::.:.....
                                    :::::::.:.:....
                                       .........

> - There is a serious need for a modeler or import from a know modeler .. editing
> 3D coordinated by hand isn't really userfriendly

Make a suggestion for a good and simple file format. I do not want to
write a 3d editor - I only wanted to play around with the idea of
rendering 3d in ascii. It should not be very hard to convert other
formats to my format. The only problem I am suffering from is that a
textbox can only keep about 30kB of text...
(If you are interested I can send you the data for an x-wing fighter).

> - more ways to set the camera, not just rotate it round the y axis but also the
> x and z axis
> The easyiest/best way would be to control the camera like most 3D shooters.
> ... 

Again you are right - but I do not want to spend too much time on this
tool...

> Jave might need faster 3D rendering for this, possibly it could draw in simple
> wireframe or just draw the image in ordinary pixels and only asciify when a
> shapshot is taken

I think since 1.1a it is fast enough for most objects. Try the following
in the renderer: press one of the buttons for navigation and then use
the cursor keys to rotate/zoom.

> - More primaries as demos .. I like your balls (pun intended)

You are talking about those, ain't you?

        OoOoooo:o
     OO8O8OOOOoOoo:o
   OOO8O8O8OOOOoo:o::.
  O8O8888888O8OOoOoo::. 8O8OOoo
 oOO888888888OOoOoo::.:.88O8OOoo:
oOO8O8888888O8OOoOoo::.:.8888OOoo::OOOoO:o
ooOOOO8O8O8OOOOoo:o::.:..8O8OOoo::..8OOoo::
oOoOOOO8O8OOOOoOoo:o::...O8OOoo:o::.8888oo::O8oo
 :ooooOoOoOoooo:o::.:...oOoooo::.:..8OOoo::..8Ooo
  :ooooooooooo:o::.:...oooo:o::.:..OOOoO:o::O8oo::
   :::o:o:o::::.:......:.:.:.:... o:o:o::..:o::..
     :::::::.:.:....    :.:....    :.:.:.. :.:..
        .........

(it is not very hard to diddle this image to match the other meaning) 
I like them, too. I think I will add a tutorial about how to create it
to the documentation (the one I am going to write the next weeks or
so...).

> It seems I can go on with idea as I only had the some of the watermark and
> texttool idea when I began writing this ..

:-) Feel free to add more. I will not comment on all of them but I will
read them and put the best on my list of ideas for Jave. I would also be
interested in what others do/do not like to see in Jave, but only few
people contribute to this topic...

> I think I can be credited as the biggest contributor of suggestions so far to
> Jave *g* ..

Again: that's so right :-)

> if you exclude Markus who dont ever seem to post his ideas for
> discussion .. he just bullies them on the rest of us with a surprise update *gg*
> :)

There are 3 options differing in speed:
1) I write others I will do something
  -> it will take a month
2) I tell others I will do something
  -> it will take a week
3) I do not tell others and simply start doing it
  -> it will take a day
So I rather use option 3)...

...oops, this has taken a lot of time. I have to water my tomatoes...
                                              \   \
                                               |   |
                              `\    ,-         |   |
                                `\  | ,.-''     |   |
                              :o:o`o-b':.       \   |
           ._    ,          OoO____oOoo:o::     '.  |
             `\ /  /__,.===''''____'''''---._    |   \
              '|,=',-''' oOO8oOO8O8O8''--.._ '`-.| '.| _,   ,
          _,.OOOoo       ooOoooOoOOOoOoo::.:'-''=._ \|,  _'
       -''  OO8OO::      :ooO:ooOoOoOoo:o::...   ' \ | --'
           ooOOOoo::      :o:o:o:o:o:o::.:...  :o:o:o:o::.
            ::o::..         ::o:::o::::.:..  OoOoOoOoOoo:o::
             .....            .:...:.....  oOoOoOoOOOoOoo::.:.
                                          oOO8oOO8O8O8OOoo::.:.
                                          ooOoooOoOOOoOoo::.:..
                                          :ooO:ooOoOoOoo:o::...
                    ._        ____         :o:o:o:o:o:o::.:...
       ----..____,....'-..........'=___      ::o:::o::::.:..
     ,,.---''-------------.....__      -..__   .:...:.....
 _-''    /'            ,-'       '''''=,--._'`-./   |
    ,-'''.   =------../__    ..._..,='      ._      /
   | '| ../    \..__ '   '|  \,/ `/  `---.    -     |
      /-      \__     ...,'  -^  -   -....     \   .
      |     |--''''..__ |   '.  '  \..._:.     |   |
             \        '  '\:::'     |          |   /
              '-- - --'    \:::_.---          |   |
               -----                              '

Markus
(who is not very proud about his image of a tomato, but who is very
proud about his tomato plant although he does not like to eat
tomatoes...)

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